Breeding fruitflies

I have never critized you, I have though used different gutloads over the last 4 years and saw a significant improvement in color and weight gain in my reptiles when using a quality gutload, I personally use Progeckos Gutload and my breeding leos gained back all of their pre breeding weight while still laying eggs and their color was vastly improved within a few weeks of changing my gutload.

My veileds color was also improved and there was weight gain as well even in my adults.

Well, I swore I was done with forums but I feel I need to drop my 3/4 a cent of input on this one.

The article I wrote on gutloading basics was just that, an article on basics. As Jim alluded to, there is very little published data available on any chameleons nutritional needs let alone what one should use in gutloading. My intent in the article was not to direct someone to one thing or another but to make them aware that there are things that should be considered in making your decision. There are many options out there for gutloading and many of them work with great success, it is up to the individual as to what they would use.

Jason that was bascially my point, there are many options out there and one has to choose.

I personally and based on trying different gutloads over the last 4 years just do not think fish flakes and carrots make for a good gutload. If others have good luck with that gutload, great, but readers need to know that there is more out there than that.

And I also thought the article was well written, and conveyed exactly the caution that you wanted it to. We all know that it is surprising how for all the discussion on it, there are very few definitive plans on "this is exactly how you should supplement", etc., as the many variables involved are still quite variable!

Wendy says:

Jason that was bascially my point, there are many options out there and one has to choose.

I personally and based on trying different gutloads over the last 4 years just do not think fish flakes and carrots make for a good gutload. If others have good luck with that gutload, great, but readers need to know that there is more out there than that.

Compare the bold above to the actual statement made earlier:

Sorry Jim, I didn't think I needed to explain why I felt fish flakes were a poor gutload when I gave the link the the article written on proper gutloads for chameleons.

Wendy, it was not that you criticized it, which you did (check the dictionary). That is fine, and critical analysis of the options here are good. But you provided no analysis. When I pointed out to you that that was a rather poor way to claim fault in something, without explaining, you then provided that above "I didn't think I needed to explain .....", referencing the link to Jason's article. We now have Jason explaining his article, which again is very well written, and he draws a more restrained conclusion than do you, and you seemed to be hoping to quote him. I am sure that Jason and I and others could write pages on the subject, explaining more scenarios and the cautions inherent with each, but to be truly thorough would take more time than I doubt he currently has, and know that I don't. We are still experimenting with the "delivery" of supplements here, and always will be, as well as looking for better supplements, etc.

It was "fish-flakes and green vegetables" BTW, not "fish flakes and carrots".

I am all for people knowing all they can of gutloads, and leaving as little to assumption as possible. That is why I expect disagreements here to carry an explanation, especially by the new moderator (congrats by the way ), so that the reader can digest some of the logic process behind it, and be able to "choose".

To go a little further, as I asked for it. Too many fish flakes is not good. It is over-kill. My best "easy" recommendation is an inexpensive wheat-based cricket food (such as made by FRM, 50 lb $10-12) for your regular daily "non-gutload" cricket food, for all size crickets. Fresh vegetables (or see Jason's article) for moisture. Then, in the 24 hours prior to the crickets being offered as food, add fish flakes only to those crickets separated out for feeding, and use a green vegatable for added moisture and nutrition.

The best vitamin product ever made in my view was liquid Reptisol by Tetra. No longer made, so I can't recommend it. Certain essential vitamins, particularly real Vitamin A (palmitate) are fat-soluble, and not available in a powder (some new stuff coming out of China, but the jury is out). Usually using a touch of glycerin as a solvent, the trace amounts of the fat-soluble vitamins needed can be made to dissolve in a water solution. Chameleons react very poorly to anything oily put in their mouths, such that 3-4 drops of anything oil in their mouth can have fatal results (gagging, regurgitation, inhalation and suffocation), but they will swallow water solutions. If you must apply an oil-based vitamin, just moisten a Q-tip with it, and touch their tongue. They usually only require trace amounts of the oil-based vitamins anyway.

To those who PM'd me asking me to hang around, I thank you for your urging, but like Jason, I want to swear off all of this stuff. Whether it be this forum or others in the site, the sniping requires so much more explanation and writing than many of us who try to come here with information have the time or patience for. What I need to be focusing on is tripling the content of my website. Thanks again.

Jim, the thing is and Ill just go ahead and say it here instead of replying to your PM.

The way I see it is that you don't have to be rude and condesending to me or anyone else to give your advise based on your experience. You also could take a chapter in learning how to take the opinions others have based on their experience.

You also are not all knowing, although I know you know a great deal about chameleons, your way is not the only way. You nor anyone else is the all knowing of chameleons.

You do not need to attempt to tear people down and try to put off that air about you that makes everyone think that you think you are better than the rest of the people here.

And Ill about bet that for every PM you got asking you to stay, I got 3 asking why I had not done or said something sooner about your post and the way you talk down to other people here.

Take it with a grain of salt for all I care, you can act and talk to people anyway you want but as I told you almost 2 months ago, this attitude of yours will come of no good to you.

And if you think I criticized some of your post, Im sorry but all you have done is critcize me and other posters for their opinions.

Your advise is needed, welcome and wanted. I just don't see why you can;t find a nice way of posting your thoughts.

Wendy,
It was clear from your posts that there was a heck of a lot more going on than you were saying. You have made that all quite clear now. Your reference to something said "two months ago" is extraordinarily out of place, and from a completely different thread in another forum where you were a late-comer and had not done your reading. It is far-fetched as to being BS, and yet you pull it to this thread. What's next? I do not think I am alone in expecting disagreement to include an explanation of "why?". It was never your opinion about what you think is right, or works well. It was your criticism without explanation, or in the case of Jason's article, citing phantom information that the author even came forward to say was not represented as such in his article. I have no clue what set you off on these tangents of the last 24 hours. Seems it goes elsewhere to things besides these threads. I wish you well Wendy, but if I go by your PM of two days ago, if every time you have a bad day it has to spill out here ...... such is life I guess. And people wonder why folks swear off forums?

The only thing "more" going on is the way you attemt to get your point across which males aht I said almost 2 months ago not out of place, it was not about a thread but about your attitude in your postings period. I explained to you later that I had done some reading and I that I somewhat understood. But that if you continued on that path of style of posting it would come of no good.

But that attitude is not a good way to get information across to people.

And yes I had a bad day a couple of days ago, that is why I did not make my replies until later.

Jim I hope to see you here on the forum and if the only way you can express your thoughts has that attitude and tone added to it, so be it. I prefer to try to be nice to people myself.

Wendy,
I am going to go on the assumption that you care about the dessimination of information on chameleons. You say so in your "new moderator" post. You have invited opinions specific to certain husbandry concerns. In this thread and others, several posted opinions. We all will judge the credence we give to those opinions for a variety of reasons. You made a choice to be critical of the opinions of others without citing the basis for your disagreement, except to have an opinion. Many novices in the hobby read here, and will make novice decisions based on the experience of others, as they have very little experience yet themselves. If you do not want to acknowledge what I feel is a fundamental obligation to explain the basis for your criticisms, then let that be your disregard for the novices who come to your moderated forum to get info. You attempted to hide behind Jason's article, and God bless him for coming here and clarifying his words there. His article was written to help people form a better basis of knowledge with which to make complicated husbandry decisions.
Now you want to stretch it so far off topic as to be pathetic. I guess you cannot keep it to the topic of this forum, much less this thread, which I believe was fruit flies and gutload. Your opinion here, specifically to disagree with one I put up, was challenged, asking you to provide the basis for your conclusion. You were unable to, and instead chose to make a broad personal attack, trying to bring in all but the kitchen sink. Sit in judgement all that you care to of other threads and the motivations of posters in them. If you think it has a place here, I am sure you will do it again. For lack of a better way to put it, considering how you defined this forum in your self-introduction, your handling of it is not inspiring to those who will still come here seeking knowledge.
As for the other thread months ago, I was polite to you then. Your criticisms then, which are not as you now state them, BTW, came in the form of a couple of posts that were off topic, where you had not been a part of the issue, and had not done your homework. You did eventually say that you understood my view, once you became a little more informed. I do not write to please you or any other, Wendy. If you want to resurrect whatever still bothers you about that thread, then do it there, as it is at least in context there. To bring it here, all twisted and spun, ........ well, the viewing audience will draw their opinions.

Jim I will not debate this with you here, take it to HELL if you like. I have had a problem with how to talk "at" and "down" and not to people within your post. There is no specific thread, your attitude was mentioned by other members to me whom I had bragged about you to. I then looked at a few post, did see your point in a lot of threads but did NOT like the attitude and tone and I told you.

This thread will now be LOCKED since it is no longer about fruit flies but about how I feel your advise and tips would be better taken if posted in a non condesending way.

After talking to Jim we both agreed this thread should remain open since there is some good information here and more to be shared still.