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Old 03-27-2007, 05:21 PM   #1
p_i_r_sales
Bearded Dragon Calcium Question ? ? ?

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone out there has ever used finely crushed chicken egg shells to help with the calcium intake that a pregnant dragon needs?
Is this a bad idea or good?

I sprinkle my dragons food daily with her regular calcium powder and she has been getting 2-3 pinkie mice every week.

My outcome of eggs surviving this year were VERY low. I'm thinking that possibly the female did not get the proper amount of calcium before being bred. I know the egg casualties are high when they lay the first season but out of 2 batches of eggs (42) eggs total, only 6 of them look awesome. The other 36 molded and sank in a few days later.

She is 1 1/2 years old and at the proper weight to be breeding.

Thanks,
JG
 
Old 03-27-2007, 09:54 PM   #2
Drache613
Hello

Hello,

While I do not know your tank setup, temps, UVB, etc, I do know that it is strongly recommended not to breed any bearded dragon until the age of 2. Most of the time, the recommended weight is at least 500 grams, as well.
If she isn't old enough, most likely her calcium stores are not adequate enough to support being gravid, which will leach her bones causing metabolic bone problems. As far as crushed up chicken eggshells, I personally have never used them. I know that Aussies love to use cuttlebone for their calcium alot of times. I would just stick with the calcium powder.
Also, 2-3 pinky mice weekly is too much fat for her. There are other feeders that are healthier for her with less fat. Too much fat this early on will set her up for fatty liver disease.
I hate to even ask, but have you tested your dragons for the Adenovirus? If not, it is highly suggested that you do.

Tracie
 
Old 03-28-2007, 09:31 AM   #3
Cat_72
My question is, why would you want to use egg shells? I just don't see what benefit this would offer over the normal calcium supplement.

There are a lot of reasons that the eggs may not be surviving, including her young age, low fertility from the male (is he so young as well?), temp fluctuations, incubation substrate/humidity problems....the list goes on and on.

2-3 mice per week is a bit much, and if she is getting that much fat, it is very likely that she does weigh quite a bit, but that doesn't mean she is ready to breed at only a year and a half old. Is she getting just plain calcium, or calcium with D3 as well?
 
Old 03-28-2007, 10:02 PM   #4
p_i_r_sales
Hello,

Thanks for the reply and advice guys!

Tracie,
Here's the quick scoop on her set up and stuff. She is housed alone and out of view of any other dragons in a 55 gal. aquarium. She has a Reptisun 8.0 full length UVB that is set on a timer. 14 hours on and 10 off. She has a Ceramic 100 watt heat bulb and dish. She has Astra turf for a substrate that is spot cleaned daily and deep cleaned weekly. Her hot spot in the cage is 108 F and the cool side is at 80 F. Her rescent pregnancy diet has consisted of Crickets, Superworms, a few silk worms as a treat, 2-3 pinkie mice a week, Kale and other mixed greens daily, assorted fruits and veggies twice a week. Everything is dusted once per day with Rep-Cal Calcium with D3. She gets Rep-Cal Miner-all once per week dusted on her food as well.
She is 1 1/2 years old 500 grams and around 21 in. in length. She's a big girl. Her weigh / Length date is next month. I'd do it now but I enjoy the suprise, lol. I will cut down on the pinkies then. I was just thinking that it would help with the high calcium she needed. Tracie, you suggested using other feeders instead. What do you suggest? None of my dragons have been tested for Adenovirus as of yet. I have tested them for everything else though and their results came out great. I recently learned of this virus you are talking about. I plan to get them tested soon for this just to be safe.

Cathy,
I don't know why egg shell thing popped up. I was just thinking that egg shells are bone "Calcium" and read somewhere that breeders will sometimes give this to their tortoises for an extra calcium supplement. I haven't read anywhere that Dragon breeders did this though and that's the reason for this thread. In reading I found that a female that doesn't get enough calcium before and during breeding / laying that the eggs might not have a high turn out rate. This and the fact that she could have serious health problems if not given a enough of the calcium. I was thinking...... We give our pregnant dragons pinkie's because it's high in calcium, right? Why not just put some finely ground egg shells on their food with their regular calcium powder and completely drop giving them pinkies other then a treat now and then? I know tortoise owners will often put a cuttlebone in the terrarium for the tort to gnaw on for extra calcium. I can't really imagine a Dragon gnawing on one of those. They don't seem to be chewers to me. Just a thought is all. I'm just worried that she isn't getting the amount of calcium that she need right now. Especially with the low egg turn out.
My whole worry here is her very, very low egg turn out rate. 42 eggs and only six are still in the game. You are probably right though on her age. She probably is too young then to properly lay viable eggs. I was told and read somewhere that they had to be at least 1 year old and 500 grams. Guess they where wrong, eh? The Male that I bred her with was 2 years old by the way.
It looks to me as though I'm getting my info from the wrong sources. I search google and usually come up with differant answers as to properly care, raise and breed the bearded dragon making it difficult to decide who is right. I have found that fauna has the most reliable info. Are there any other sites that are reliable? Lately I have been referring to Dachiu's care guides to get accurate info when I have a quick question or had forgotten something. I have spent hours and hours on researching all my pets and it's very frustrating when I find that I have been studying the wrong information.
In the mean time I will lay off of the 2-3 times weekly pinkies and put this girl on a diet. I haven't used the egg shells as of yet and will hold off until I can find more info on it. Oh..... just in case it pops up then this is how my incubator is set up.
I have a home made incubator. I had made it out of a small dorm room fridge. It hold temps perfectly with in a ( .1-2 degrees ). I have a Spyder Robotics Herpstat set at 83*. The probe is on the top shelf in its own container with moist vermiculite without eggs. The Herpstat controls two 40 watt black lights at the bottom of the incubator. I have a battery operated fan that very gently circulates the air for 5 min. (on) and (off) for 10 min.. I have the eggs sitting 2/3 deep in vermiculite in small containers with two 3/8" holes drilled into them for air circulation. The humidity in the containers are at 78-80% with condinsation on the lids. Not enough condensation though to get a large build up and chance the droplets landing on the eggs. Every two days I will check the eggs to give them fresh air and check the lids for built up condensation. If the condensation build up is too high I will knock off the access water droplets.

Thanks again for your help and advice!

Please let me know if you come up with any other thoughts,
JG
 
Old 03-28-2007, 10:28 PM   #5
Drache613
Hello

Hello JG,

Do you use a bright white lightbulb for basking & warmth? Or, just the ceramic heat emitter? She needs bright white light, along with the UVB. Your temps are definitely fine. How old is your UVB?
The crickets, superworms, & silkies are fine then. No problem. There are hornworms & phoenix worms but what you are using is fine. I would cut down on the pinkies though, to every other week. Really, if you start giving her some liquid calcium during those times, she will be fine. The pinkies do have alot of fat in them, & you don't want to expose her to risks of getting fatty liver disease.
The calcium with D3 should only be given 5 times weekly. The D3 can buildup in her system. I think if you got the liquid calcium instead of giving pinkies so often she will be fine. Also, I wouldn't give Kale more than 1-2 times weekly as it will bind calcium since it has oxalates in it. You can give greens & veggies daily though. Normally, for an adult, about 50 feeders weekly is sufficient. You can just increase when breeding or gravid for a bit.
Her size is really good, at 21 inches, & 500 grams. At 1 1/2 years, just give her a bit more time. I would wait though until she is 2 to breed. You could probobly safely take her to 600 grams at her length. Glad to hear your male was 2 years at breeding.
Yeah I would definitely test for adenovirus before getting into a larger breeding realm. It can be absolutely devastating to your entire colony, not to mention the public.
Your incubation information & setup sounds fine to me.
Let us know if you have any other questions.

Tracie
 
Old 03-29-2007, 08:54 AM   #6
Cat_72
Eggshells and calcium supplements are both simply calcium carbonate.....there would be no advantage to adding eggshells over the regular supplement as far as I can tell.
 
Old 03-31-2007, 04:19 PM   #7
p_i_r_sales
Hello Tracie,

I used to use the black light 60 watt heat bulbs but those dang things burnt out every time I turned around. Recently I switched to the ceramic 100 watt heat bulbs. They last forever it seems. A bit pricey but worth it in the long run. I'm thinking, actually saving "lol" to build them all custom cages so do you think it'd be ok to add an additional florescent light? Or would I need something brighter? Until then I could use a light bulb with a dish I guess. I replace my UVB every six months. Her UVB is currently 4 months old.
I have recently heard of the pheonix worms and plan to use those for the females for prep and during the breeding season next year. Are the Hornworms high in calcium also or just a good source of meat? I'll have to look into those. I'll start cutting down on her pinkie intake asap. 1 every other week, gotcha.
I'll look into that liquid calcium as well. Who makes it? How often should I give that to her with her other supplements?
Ooops, I've been given them all Kale since the get go. I have torts as well and know that they shouldn't have large quantities of kale but I didn't know that it stood for the dragons also. Thats a bummer though. I really like how the Kale lasts so long before going bad.

Yep, they are all cut off from reproducing till they are 2. This is the first female of my clan that I thought was old enough to breed so it's a good thing I know this now cause come summer I planned on breeding a few other females. I'll get ahold of my Herp Vet and set up an appointment here soon to test them for this virus.

Thanks for all your great tips and info ! ! !

JG
 
Old 03-31-2007, 04:20 PM   #8
p_i_r_sales
Hello Cathy,

I'll just stick to the supplements then. Guess I waisted my time grounding up those egg shells eh? LOL.


Thanks for the tips and your help !

Take care,
JG
 

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