Problem with Platinum Dragons

Alright, lets get started. It all started when I was trying to trade off my good color adult male for a female adult. I found an ad for a "high color adult female" bearded dragon. I emailed them (TNT Dragons) and they sent me three photos. It was a decent colored dragon, but in the photos, it had a black beard and were labeled "apollo". I thought this was fishy, and so I did more research. On kingsnake.com, I found a picture, the EXACT SAME PHOTO that I was sent from TNT Dragons, under the name of Platinum Dragons. I decided I wouldnt do this business, and it turns out that TNT Dragons is actually a man named Frank (repti_king) and is possibly bipolar (so Ive heard, and has done major fraud). However, that is not the bad part.

On reptileauction.com, I saw a VERY similar photo posted by platinum dragons of a dragon for sale/auction. I checked the photo, and my archived photos that TNT Dragons stole from platinum dragons, and they were the same except this time, Platinum dragons touched up the photos majorly! They look super orange and red when the dragon in the originals looked a drab brownish orange! I immediatly pointed out fraud and posted it with the original photo on reptimart.com where I saw another of the same ad's posted. Before I did this, I emailed them to see what was up, but got no response. Platinum Dragons, instead posted a NASTY post calling one of my dragons a fraud, and telling me I have no right to use their photograph. I contacted the webmaster, and he removed all the posts. I posted a reply on reptileauction.com under their ad, because people before me were talking about how they saw the same dragon udner a different morph, and platinum dragons came back saying that it was all the same etc etc. I posted expressing my concern that they doctored the photo, trying to protect others from fraud. Instead, Platinum Dragons posted yet another nasty reply, insulting my "ugly" dragons, my business, and myself. They also tried to use my age to dismiss me as "immature". They repeatedly pulled up the topic of my age. Personally, this is not how a responsible businessman should act. I came back asking for an apology and still saying that I have the original photos, sending them to him. Again, a nasty reply. There were replies posted on my thread and on his. His thread is now gone, but I saved my thread (which was MUCH shorter, but still a nasty reply!) He emailed me telling me to apoligize and to tell me where I got the photos. I submitted and apoligized publicly on his thread, because frankly, I did not want my name to be tainted any more than it was. I said that we "worked it out" and decided not to post anymore on the subject. I asked him to apoligize as well, but it took him SEVERAL DAYS, and it was a VERY small apology compared to mine. He was VERY inconsiderate, extremely defensive, immature, and downright rude to me, insulting my business, my dragons, and myself. I decided that I had tried my best to prevent fraud. They did send me photos of the same dragon "cooled down", which looks really yellow and orange. Email me if you would like to see those. Here are some of their nasty comments:

Question about this item from (buyer): Platinumdragons
Post on: Thu Apr 14, 04:55 PM
Arent you tired of posting the same dragon everywhere? No one wants him! .. Funny how JNS wouldnt even sell you a dragon! .. give it up.
and if you bought him from Fox Fire, what were the parents name that produced him???

Response on this item from (seller): Dmlove
Post on: Thu Apr 14, 05:05 PM
Seriosly, you are extremely unprofessional. Would you like the email from Cindy at Foxfire? Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 06:27:03 -0700 To: "David Love" From: "Foxfire" Add to Address Book Subject: Re: Dragon I purchased from you He was ember Jemfire Red-Pastel (Saphire Dragon Ranch) X Chris Allen Red-Orange ( Scar X Red Sandfire), Cindy


Response on this item from (seller): Dmlove
Post on: Thu Apr 14, 05:06 PM
And by the way, what are you talking about with JNS? You have no right to be so immature about this. Are we in third grade, therefore insult others property? I have just pointed out fraud, not calling your dragon ugly. And for the record, he is not.

MORE COMMENTS:

Prove to me, and everyone on her how you figure out how ONLY the dragons colors ( so you say ) were altered yet the surroundings are still the same color?? What is your based accusation? I told you we were gonna leave it alone, and we did, but here you are again running your mouth about how I was disrespectful? Ofcourse, you're calling my Company a Fraudelant without a cause, pointing the finger without the evidence, an accusation without proof..

- Well my photos were my evidence, but I guess thats not enough. I also wondered that if they really have been business for "20 years" as they say, then wouldnt they have a website?

I did show the photos to a person who does photography almost daily, and works with photoshop. This is response to my post on another site "Is this photo Doctored?":

Author: WK [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ] [ Logout ] [ User Prefs ] [ Search Forums ] [ Back to Main Page ] [ Back to Photography Forum ] [ Reply To This Message ]
Date: Wed Apr 20 08:17:08 2005
Subject: No, it looks lawyered...

It was obviously modified to make the lizard more red / orange. Modifying digital photographs is a controversial topic. I'm of the opinion that doing anything you can do in a film-processing dark room (change exposure, grain, crop, etc.) is OK to do with digital images. But enhancing the appearance of a herp to increase its marketability is definitely a questionable practice. However, I'm not saying this is the reason for the modification of the image you posted.

Just my opinion.

Cheers,
WK

Shown is comparison photos. The duller one is the one sent by a certain Frank Triana, the original photo they took from Platinum Dragons. The other is one of theirs that they posted in ads.

I have YET to have a bad sale. This is the only problem that I have encountered, and they are making my name bad because THEY are trying to fraud people because they colored up their dragon! I decided to drop it, but with some persuading from a few people that I should pursue this, I decided that I would. Here is a threat (more or less) that they posted, maybe trying to scare me into submission?:

We are horrible to you David? Again USING OUR NAME.. I sent you a personal email, "I DO NOT WANT THE NAME "PLATINUM DRAGONS" USED BY YOU OR ANY PERSON RELATED TO YOU BUSINESS AGAIN."

Or this situation WILL Escalate.....
Your a smart kid, drop it.

I dont know if they will be posting on here or not Someone help me here! Why is it that the honest businesses suffer the most because of dishonest people trying to get an extra penny?! Please someone tell me if I have done something wrong here or overlooked something.

David

My Name - David Love

Oh come one! It is totally obvious that those are completely seperate animals...

Yikes. Thanks for the head's up...that is something else...

greg

No wiggle room here. EXACTLY the same photo.
Send them another email with a link here.

I would like to see their response.

David, if you start bending over now for lying scumbags it can get to be a habit you will regret for a LOOOOOOOOONG time.

If you're honest you have no need to appologize. The bad guys will ALWAYS try to get you to back down. DON'T do it, ever. The photo was doctored, you were right.

Standing up for yourself, especially when young or just getting started, is not always easy but you MUST. You will not ALWAYS be popular but you will garner a reputation for honesty which is FAR more important than popularity.

If all is as you say, as it appears, you will be fine no matter what the guy who doctored the photos says or does.

Good pick up.

Wes said it all, just about.

Platinumdragons, here's your sign:

David and I discussed this subject a little prior to this post. I'm glad he went ahead and posted the information here. Though I have never met him personally I have seen how he conducts himself over the last year and it has been impeccable. Scumbags like this get all hostile when someone catches them in the act. When this information was made public on another forum he was the one catching heat. I'm glad to see it's being directed in the right direction now.

Mike

Anyone that is a nodding aquaintance with Photoshop can tell the top photo has been enhanced.

Sorry you caught heck for pointing that out, David. Don't sweat it. Folks like that usually end up showing just exactly what they are about all by themselves.

I posted on that Bad Guy thread on the other site with a link here; hopefully he will come and explain himself.

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

I posted on that Bad Guy thread on the other site with a link here; hopefully he will come and explain himself.

I doubted it but we will see.