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Old 06-24-2007, 10:14 PM   #41
Tere Salazar
Quote:
Originally Posted by outsdr2
Hi Tere, No the ones I visited were 2 Italian, 2 German and one aussie. I can post links if you like?
Jack
Do they come with automatic translation?

Yes, Jack. I'd love to see what you came across.
 
Old 06-24-2007, 10:37 PM   #42
whiskersmom
So, it doesn't look like this is something that is going to be a big seller! If the dollar sign is taken out of the equation maybe the desire to create more of these poor creatures will fade.
I've said this before, and I'll keep on saying it....just because we can doesn't mean we should.

Thanks Jack and Tere for the info on how other's are feeling towards this inbreeding/creation...if you could please post the links, that would be great!
 
Old 06-24-2007, 10:46 PM   #43
Dennis Hultman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denisebme
That said, there are ways of breeding that make this a safer practice, but you have to do plenty of outbreeding to strengthen the lines if you want to avoid serious issues.
I agree with this statement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by puppytoes72
we all knew that it was inbreeding but we waited for him to "tighten the noose" so to speak
Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree with you. If I replace silkback in the below quote and put in any mutation associated with snakes, geckos or any other animal, it would be called responsible out-crossing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessandro
I have bred my silkback male on a normal female (unrelated) and it gave me all the babies being leath.
Maybe I'm missing something besides the fact that this mutation is disliked.
 
Old 06-24-2007, 10:58 PM   #44
outsdr2
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskersmom
So, it doesn't look like this is something that is going to be a big seller! If the dollar sign is taken out of the equation maybe the desire to create more of these poor creatures will fade.
I've said this before, and I'll keep on saying it....just because we can doesn't mean we should.

Thanks Jack and Tere for the info on how other's are feeling towards this inbreeding/creation...if you could please post the links, that would be great!
Hi Sheri and Tere, Here are the links. Hopefully you have google translater.

http://translate.google.com/translat...ial%26hs%3DbHe


http://translate.google.com/translat...ial%26hs%3DsRe

http://translate.google.com/translat...ial%26hs%3DsRe

http://translate.google.com/translat...icial%26sa%3DN

http://www.dragontank.com/main/index...t=7086&start=0

http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...4D6EF643223340

Hope this helps prove our point.

Jack
 
Old 06-24-2007, 11:00 PM   #45
puppytoes72
yes,but how did he get the silkback to start with?inbreeding!i see what you are saying but he took an inbred silkback and then bred it with a normal.it can take awhile to see the damage done by it.he admitted to "close relation"
 
Old 06-24-2007, 11:19 PM   #46
shadi11
I dont know if this is one that Jack posted but here
http://translate.google.com/translat...moz2%26hl%3Den
There is a post that says... In alemoz2 post part way down that page.

perhaps in the pogone lines could be called cawley or the dachiu

So wouldnt this be returning it here for inbreeding.. and not exactly starting with a clean line anyhow.
 
Old 06-24-2007, 11:29 PM   #47
puppytoes72
sounds like it to me.it was very hard to understand but thats what i got out of it.seems like they are asking the same questions as we are! ty for posting that laura.
 
Old 06-24-2007, 11:31 PM   #48
pscaulkins
Thank you outsdr2 for posting those links. Like all things we can only hope the demand for Smoothies will be down so the supply will dwindle. They do look so pathetic.

shadi11, I agree bringing them back is not starting fresh.

In my opinion, imbreeding affects the buyers more than the sellers. The buyers are the ones purchasing the dragons and having major problems, not the sellers. If a breeder was responsible, they would listen to all the qualms people have and not fight them like I have seen on this forum.
 
Old 06-24-2007, 11:32 PM   #49
Valley Dragons
my thoughts on inbreeding...

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskersmom
Lately there's been quite alot of discussion regarding inbreeding bearded dragons in order to create what some people think are a desirable trait. I think this is wrong but would like to know what others think.
Let me put it this way...do you think that it's worth the risk of genetic related problems (even years down the line) to breed related dragons?
First off - lets take all the "fear of the unknown" out of the word and give it a concrete definition. Inbreeding is the mating of closely related individuals, which tends to increase the number of individuals that are homozygous for a trait and therefore increases the appearance of recessive traits. You are basically concentrating the gene pool - reducing the number of alleles (genes) available within a population.

This can be good - such as when you use inbreeding to produce desirable traits, and this can be bad - such as when animals loose vitality after too much close inbreeding. Inbreeding is essential for producing color morphs, albinos - pretty much anything that goes beyond the norm. BUT- there are ways to minimize the problems associated with inbreeding. Let's take for instance the silkback. If you breed that silkback to two completely unrelated dragons, you will produce animals that are het for silkback. Then, if you breed those het offspring back together, you get silkbacks. You just reduced your chances of problems by half. Consider if you continue outcrossing...a few generations later and your chances of having any problems are minimal.

I personally do not have a problem with inbreeding when it is used in a responsible manner. I do not agree with breeding brother and sister together, and then breeding those siblings together, and on and on. But with careful outcrossing, I believe that the problems associated with inbreeding will be minimized.

Jamie
 
Old 06-24-2007, 11:33 PM   #50
shadi11
Seems as though a few posts allessandro states that the dragons are Dachiu and crawley lines. so If thats the case.. I dont see how line breeding will help. I understand line breeding but you have to breed out of that line so much to purify completely.
 

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