Scalesless Heads- Do they have a strong future?

Thank you Steve for posting these pics. A pic is worth a thousand words. Like many others I had no idea how this project was going. I am glad that we are able to talk about. And hopefully others will join the conversation. Whether bad or good the reptile community will be a better one if we all talk about it. I hope that it does not turn into a finger pointing contest. Integrity is something very important; and for one I try my best to hold on to. When I look into the mirror I would like to see a person that I could trust. I hope that there will be more information that gets out on this project. We did not get into this hobby initially to make money, but to enjoy and share our hobby with others. Thank you for joining the conversation, Stan

I kind of think scale-less snakes are only popular because of the novelty of them. Honestly they look like gross old snakes to me, not something pretty to look at, which is a large part of liking a snake - the way it looks. I tend to dislike hairless mammals too. Sphinx cats, hairless rats, those weird hairless dogs. Idk, I love beautiful fur, and I love beautiful scales. But that's just one consumer's opinion x3 Even the scaleless heads would bother me..they look incomplete lol

Originally Posted by ShawneeAlice

I kind of think scale-less snakes are only popular because of the novelty of them. Honestly they look like gross old snakes to me, not something pretty to look at, which is a large part of liking a snake - the way it looks.

Couldn't agree more! I never understood the appeal.

Some concerns (purely speculative) -

1) Is there not the worry that this would result in the need for much tighter environmental humidity controls to avoid skin maladies (thereby increasing the burden on the keeper)?

2) Relating to 1, is there not the worry that this could also prove an inferior barrier to microbial ingress in general beyond the reduction in protection against desiccation?

3) What impact does this trait have on the brille and is there not the worry that the eye has reduced defense as a result if the brille is in any way compromised (even if only partially)?

I doubt there are enough data to make conclusions due to so few available samples, but I would imagine there would be a delicate balancing act to care with multiple points of potentially increased risk. I do not wish to dog the project or the folks involved in it. These are simply my intuitive and automatic concerns that arose the instant I saw the animal. I am understanding (to a degree) of certain compromises that can come hand in hand with some morphs of various animals. Some I am willing to tolerate. Some I am not. Not judging on this one since I know virtually nothing regarding this, but more information would be helpful.

Well, seeing as how hairless cats need a ridiculous amount of skin maintenance to keep them healthy, it wouldn't be surprising to learn that a scaleness snake would need more specialized care.

I wrote this in response to an information request on scaleless reptiles a while ago on a different forum.

Warning: This is long, but I feel a scientific literature review was warranted given the debate surrounding scalelessness in ball pythons. I have no conflict of interest in writing this report and no stake in the scaleless market other than finding scaleless animals fascinating (I own a scaleless Texas rat snake - a new acquisition). The too-long-didn't-read summary is at the bottom above the citations.

The genetics of scalelessness in reptiles is fairly well understood, as is scalelessness in birds (particularly chickens), and hairlessness in mammals (hair and fur are basically highly modified scales). It is known that the skin of a scaleless snake lacks beta-keratin (Citation A: see below).

There is scientific literature examining scaleless reptiles since the 1970s, including numerous studies examining their health in regards to water loss (no difference in northern watersnakes, citation B), mechanical resistance to the skin (reduced in scalelessness, citation B), heat transfer (no difference between scaleless and scaled gopher snakes, citation C). For more papers, feel free to search Google Scholar, although many articles may be behind a pay wall.

There is no documentation I know of that shows that scalelessness in reptiles is linked with other defects that could cause negative health effects or death. Instead, more data is available to show that scalelessness largely has no effect on the physiology of the animal. Scalelessness also does not cause negative effects in birds (except at low temperatures, which is to be expected for an endothermic creature, Citation D) or mammals (numerous examples exist), which have common ancestors with reptiles and likely inherited the scaleless/hairless gene rather early on in the evolutionary tree. Therefore, there is no evidence I am aware of that should make us suspect that scalelessness in ball pythons should lead to reduced health or death. If scalelessness causes physiological problems in ball pythons, that would be rather new knowledge in the scientific community, and certainly warrants close examination and peer-reviewed publication(s).

TLDR; There is no scientific reason for us to suspect that scalelessness in ball pythons is a deleterious (aka bad) trait.

Citation A: Toni, M. and L. Alibardi. 2007. Soft epidermis of a scaleless snake lacks beta-keratin. European Journal of Histochemistry 51:145-151. Available here: http://ejh.it/index.php/ejh/article/viewFile/1136/1257

Citation B: Bennett, A.F., and P. Licht. 1975. Evaporative water loss in scaleless snakes. Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology Part A: Physiology 52:213-215. Available here: Evaporative water loss in scaleless snakes

Citation C: Licht, P. and A.F. Bennett. 1972. A scaleless snake: tests of the role of reptilian scales in water loss and heat transfer. Copeia 4:702-707. Available here: http://compphys.bio.uci.edu/bennett/pubs/4.pdf

Citation D: Somes, R.G. Jr., and S. Johnson. 1980. The effect of the scaleless gene, sc, on growth performance and carcass composition of broilers [chickens]. Poultry Science 61:414-423. Available here: The Effect of the Scaleless Gene, sc, on Growth Performance and Carcass Composition of Broilers

Thanks for the literature, it's good to proceed on actual evidence, and to hear that this gene doesn't seem to be linked with any other physiological deficit.

However, I still have to say I agree with ShawneeAlice on this one - just because it's possible to do things doesn't always mean it's desireable. It's a personal stance, I know, and obviously there are many people really interested in this, but for me this is similar to overbreeding bulldogs to the point where the animals can barely breathe - just doesn't make sense to me.