Strange Spider behavior

The female I have now has the head tilt sometimes as well - She's more erratic at feeding time, while fixating on the prey with her head shaking from side to side..

Originally Posted by jasballs

Every spider has it to a degree.. But so do I.. and you all love me! So whats the big deal??

It depends on whether you are saying "all spiders CARRY the gene", or "all spiders DISPLAY" the problem. I will agree that all spiders may carry the trait, but have seen spiders that do not display it. This is why I support the selective breeding of those that do not display it, to see if it can be lessened.

And we love you because you have so many other fine and redeeming qualities, we just can't help ourselves, John.

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

There are some that will say it does not exist because they are trying to sell spiders.

Its been common knowledge for a long time.

BS, Ed. Is Alicia selling spiders? Nope. Am I selling spiders? Nope. MANY of the folks who are actually going through the effort to work with this are NOT. And who the hell EVER said that the problem doesn't exist??

It could be that the REVERSE is true, IMO....those selling spiders (or at least those selling the "mass quantities") make the excuse that ALL spiders have it and there is no possible way of them not having it....so you might as well just buy one of mine that flops around upside down and acts completely retarded, because you aren't going to find one that doesn't.

Originally Posted by Jerry_c_62

The spider I have had no hint of any problem when I picked her up just over a year ago. However since then it does show some signs of a slight wobble. It seems to come and go but she always seems to have a head tilt.

Is that something others have noticed along with the wobble?

Jerry,

I only have two spiders, because I haven't had the desire to breed them specifically because of the "wobble" issues. I have been observing them closely for as long as I have had them.....so far, I haven't seen a single sign of any kind of issue with the male. The female, however, does seem to exhibit the "head tilt" you describe at times. She is not old enough to breed yet, so I will watch and wait, see what progresses before making my decision whether or not she will ever be bred. I may try breeding the male to one female this season, and see what happens.

Ralph Davis has stated in one of his blogs that all spiders wobble or spin to some degree. Another breeder friend of mine said it can be as sublte as a slight head tilt - sort of like how a puppy cocks it's head when it looks at you. Some get very excited at feeding and wobble a bit or get shakey, but show no other signs other than that. Kevin even stated on Reptile Radio that he believes that all spiders wobble or spin to varying degrees and that the original did so as well. Many of the larger scaled breeders all agree that every spider they have seen has a degree of this trait, be it barely detectable unless you know what you're looking for - to as severe as a "train wreck".

Even if this were true....(how much time do you suppose these "big breeders" have to spend actually watching and observing every spider they've ever owned?)....does this mean that it is impossible to be selectively bred to minimize the trait?

And well....when I see something with my own eyes, I guess I believe it as opposed to saying that "the big guys say so, so it must be true". Just because many say it is....doesn't make it so.

Originally Posted by Cat_72

Even if this were true....(how much time do you suppose these "big breeders" have to spend actually watching and observing every spider they've ever owned?)....does this mean that it is impossible to be selectively bred to minimize the trait?

And well....when I see something with my own eyes, I guess I believe it as opposed to saying that "the big guys say so, so it must be true". Just because many say it is....doesn't make it so.

I didnt beleive it either as my first female spider "didnt do it" Well, I was then told to watch her real close. Then I saw it. Just like Robin said she had a head tilt like a puppy. And when she goes to strike at a rat Look out! shake rattle and roll HAHA! I'm just happy she has'nt produced any of the severe wobblers yet..

Originally Posted by Cat_72

Even if this were true....(how much time do you suppose these "big breeders" have to spend actually watching and observing every spider they've ever owned?)....does this mean that it is impossible to be selectively bred to minimize the trait?

And well....when I see something with my own eyes, I guess I believe it as opposed to saying that "the big guys say so, so it must be true". Just because many say it is....doesn't make it so.

I wasn't trying to discount what anyone else has said, I was simply offering up that several well respected people in the industry have publically stated that they believe that all spiders have a varying degree of it if you know what you're looking for.

Kevin believes that it cannot be split from the spider gene, that somehow the two are linked (again, discussed on his Reptile Radio appearance). You even asked "is it impossible to be selectively bred to minimize the trait".

I would think anyone working with spiders should make that their goal. But even a slight puppy dog head tilt, which is still considered a wobble is a far more desireable outcome than a spider that can't keep themselves upright.

I've just done a breeder loan with a friend who has what most would call a "non-spinning" spider - though he does wobble a bit when swallowing his prey. We had eight babies - an even split. One baby is a trainwreck and will either remain in his collection, or come to mine as a "special needs" snake and never be bred or sold to prevent someone trying to breed him. He's eating, drinking, shedding, pooping, and my friend has told me that his spinning is less severe now that he's had some meals in him. He still will never be bred.

The other offspring are not currently showing any signs of wobbles, other than what their father does, a slight shaking as they are swallowing their prey.

Originally Posted by rabernet

One baby is a trainwreck and will either remain in his collection, or come to mine as a "special needs" snake and never be bred or sold to prevent someone trying to breed him.

It seems that a single gene produces the spider pattern and the spider problems, so a spider with little wobble can produce a corkscrewing snake, and a corkscrewing snake can produce offspring with minimal wobble.

It's possible that the risk of producing severely defective offspring is exactly the same with any spider, regardless of the severity of neurological symptoms.
If that's the case, you don't have to worry about breeding that snake any more than any other spider.

Originally Posted by JeffFlanagan

It seems that a single gene produces the spider pattern and the spider problems, so a spider with little wobble can produce a corkscrewing snake, and a corkscrewing snake can produce offspring with minimal wobble.

It's possible that the risk of producing severely defective offspring is exactly the same with any spider, regardless of the severity of neurological symptoms.
If that's the case, you don't have to worry about breeding that snake any more than any other spider.

While I personally agree that's likely the case (like a low white pied can produce high white, and vice versa) and I believe it's linked, I can not - in good conscience breed a spider that displays severe spinning, and therefore, that little guy - if he comes to me, will just be a beloved pet. I'm getting a second male that is not displaying any wobbles, other than when he's consuming his prey that I'll use for breeding in the future.

Originally Posted by rabernet

While I personally agree that's likely the case (like a low white pied can produce high white, and vice versa) and I believe it's linked, I can not - in good conscience breed a spider that displays severe spinning, and therefore, that little guy - if he comes to me, will just be a beloved pet. I'm getting a second male that is not displaying any wobbles, other than when he's consuming his prey that I'll use for breeding in the future.

Robin, If you do get the pf'ed up one send him to me. I'll breed him if hes up to it. I'd love to see what happens. Hell somebodys got to do this stuff. And have the cohones to post the results in an open forum..