Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

I'm guessing there's probably a lot more folks holding out for "fear" of getting put on the bottom of the list, or whatever else.

I have another question....if they were supposedly sending out orders in the order they were received, (until they got ticked off and started moving people to the bottom of the pile, anyway) why is it that some people who ordered in January seem to have gotten animals, but we have someone who ordered in NOVEMBER that hasn't????

Sorry about that Nick really am,,,, but you did choose your fight so to speak and aligned yourself here with Chris. Though it may just be a good excuse for them to get out of the deal...

"""I altered the above email to remove thier company name as it wouldnt be fair to throw them into this thread."""

You put them in this so you should have posted the whole email or none of it... Didn't you say something about Bob not posting the whole email earlier???? Or is this one of those do as I say not as I do , Kind of things. Nick that is one of the real problems people have had with you in this thread- your double standard...Randy

Its not a double standard,There is such a thing as good businss ethics and morals. This is apples and oranges when comparing it with emails in this thread. would you put it in??? Would you permenantly burn a bridge between you and a long time customer??
How would they deserve to have thier name added to this mess? You say its a double standard, i say its a high standard which all people should have, i also noted on the post that i edited it and what i edited for all to see, i didnt try to hide anything.
Lets do what everyone else suggests and get this thread back on what it should be focused on. Roberts and others situation with TSE.

Hey Rob,
Good thing you didn't post any snippets of legal advice you may have from an attorney, lest you end up with a charge on your bill from the attorney for $50 for "15 minutes of providing legal definitions to someone who felt that your two sick snakes were synonymous with sending ill children off to elementary school .... I should have charged you extra for the way it taxed my imagination!" Nick, I am sure you can justify your actions. As you have seen in this thread, many others do not think it was a good idea. That said, I am sorry that someone used anything you have said or done here to cancel an order, as you do not strike me as unethical. But at this point I think the message is that Chris and TSE are ethically damaged goods, and to seek a lower profile regarding them, if not disassociate.
Casey, your argument makes too much sense in how you have connected the dots, and is also the worst-case-scenario for many. One thing that stuck with me from Chris' last long post was that he acknowledged a "threat of blackmail" regarding his business. He did not say "extort". Sometimes the two terms are used interchangeably, but there is a distinction between the two. Extortion is more akin to paying protection money, to keep from being beat-up, have customers intimidated away, etc. Blackmail involves a threatened revelation of past factual event which is embarrassing, illegal, etc., but a still a fact.

Nicolai, this thread isn't about you, even though at times it may seem as it is. I cannot see how purchasing albinos from you would affect anyone's internet business so there may have been other reasons. IMO your only fault is a way too over zealous support of a friend. I support you for not posting their names because in my opinion it would be off topic.

Back to the topic. In reading some of the past several posts a few are getting too harsh (IMO) when speaking of Chris's illness. Everything lately points to Chris not being involved in the day to day operation of TSE. The ads on kingsnake did not give Chris as the contact person. I just think we should lay off questioning whether Chris is ill until we have proof otherwise. There is enough to bash TSE for without hitting someone when they may actually be on death's door.

Originally Posted by kmurphy

I just think we should lay off questioning whether Chris is ill until we have proof otherwise. .

It never even crossed my mind to question the subject until I read his last, vindictive post here.

Why would it be that we can discuss a snakes illness all day long but thoughts about just how ill Chris is are taboo?

If Chris is truly ill I wish him the best, but I think he needs to lay off putting people on the bottom of the heap and then talking about it as if this was something to point to with pride.

Originally Posted by kmurphy

Back to the topic. In reading some of the past several posts a few are getting too harsh (IMO) when speaking of Chris's illness. Everything lately points to Chris not being involved in the day to day operation of TSE. The ads on kingsnake did not give Chris as the contact person. I just think we should lay off questioning whether Chris is ill until we have proof otherwise. There is enough to bash TSE for without hitting someone when they may actually be on death's door.

Chris has put HIMSELF into this looked down on situation. He comes here and posts in an arrogant matter, telling everyone tough luck and "threatening" anyone that voices their un-happiness with having to wait even longer.

He told everyone that he won't be bothered with any of this while he's sick.

Excuse me, but didn't HE accept money? Didn't HE most likely spend it?

It went to HIS companies paypal account, and he cannot just up and say, oops, I'm very sick now, to bad y'all....

Perhaps if he had come here and sounded a bit HUMBLED by the mess ups instead of with guns and arrogance blazing, it might have made a bit of a difference.

If you have a business and accept MONEY, you have to DELIVER and timely. And you have to COMMUNICATE.

I'm sorry, but even if someone dies in your immediate family, you STILL have to fullfill your commitments, even if you grief inside. If you get sick, you STILL have to fullfill your commitments.

If he can come here and post what he did, he can email and tell his associates to REFUND people and not to accept new orders and NOT TO BUY MORE STOCK until things are on the up and up...

Oh, but he DID get in touch with them....to instruct them to ignore people and to put the ones voicing their unhappiness at the end of the line.

Sorry, but he put himself into the situation, and no matter WHAT he says, he is VERY MUCH SO involved in every single deal that has been made.

I have to agree with Lucille and Misty. Whenever Chris' illness developed, and then progressed, the spigots that kept the money coming in (marketing, PayPal, bank transfers, etc) were left wide open, completely at his direction, if for no other point of blame than he had the power to modify it to any degree he felt proper. So his condition, however incapacitating it may be, was not a hindrance (or excuse) then. And now it is when its time to deliver the goods?

We're not talking low-margin corn snakes here. I know larger operations then TSE that run smooth as silk with two people. Impeccably smooth. Sure there can be a problem here and there, but not some weeks-and-months-on-end snow job. It was an earlier post when Chris "wished his situation" on a few. Whether as ill or not as some may think, I have no clue myself except in what I have read here. What it does look most like is one giant house-of-cards, not some solid business built on ethics and integrity, that got too high. It is no pleasure for anyone for be critical of Chris at this point (well ... almost no one, but he was suspended again), but it is Chris who took a bad situation, if that's all that it is, and chose to make it worse. Good-guy bad-guy, he brought it all on himself.

Misty and Lucille, I don't disagree with the anything that either of you have said. I guess I was disturbed by the harshness of some of the posts when questioning the illness.
I don't know if anyone on this forum has been depressed or not, but when you are, you basically don't give a sh*t. A simple phone call seems like climbing Mt. Vesuvius. You realize that you need to get things done but days go by and you haven't done a thing. When you're angry you don't care what the consequences of your actions are.
Sure it would have been great if Chris came here all apologetic with promises to make things better. However, there really hasn't been any proof given, that Chris is the one accepting funds, making decisions etc. I know his last email sounded like he was giving orders but they may have been just trying to piss people off. Honestly, you couldn't make a worse business decision, then putting legitmate complainers on the back of the list, if you tried.
I am not jumping on Chris's band wagon by any means. TSE needs to straighten things out big time.

I have another question....if they were supposedly sending out orders in the order they were received, (until they got ticked off and started moving people to the bottom of the pile, anyway) why is it that some people who ordered in January seem to have gotten animals, but we have someone who ordered in NOVEMBER that hasn't????

the reason is clear...it is a line of BS. I have worked with 2 wholesale outfits over the past decade. Both outfits much larger than Chris's, in fact my own business here is probably larger than TSE, Paypal list the # of verified deals a business does , last I looked he was under 200 verified deals, I myself have more deals than that listed under my personal paypal account. I know that doesn't account for all the money orders and people who pay directly. But since most people now use it to buy online it is something worth noting.
I feel this bit of information is important to shed some light on the fact that if his business has grown to the point where they can no longer handle the orders then his paypal rating should reflect that by having many 100's of verified deals?? The statement that he has extra trucks pulling up and shipping out dozens of orders daily just to catch up doesn't float in my book. Personally I feel they are buying peoples animals as they go and filling orders as they go.. there is no waiting line of 100 orders all backed up...It's just a big line of BS to make people wait. Telling people the truth that they do not have there animals or $$ is probably the last thing on there mind right now..
Also I just ran a check on there paypal account...seems they have been shut down by them... It stated they are unable to receive or send funds!! That's pretty interesting.
I think it is time TSE "good Guy " standing be revoked until they get things straighten out.