Question about eggs and the hatching process

Ok, this is not about dragon eggs, but the agama eggs. I figure the same idea should hold for both since they are of the same species and incubate the same.

Tonight we found one of our little agamas dead in the egg. Last night it started sweating hard like it might hatch, and this morning the egg was completely collapsed around the baby, and the baby did not move at all. I left it for the day, thinking it might still be trying to get out, but as of about 7 tonight, we knew it had died. We did some surgery on the egg, and found the little one gone. It looks as if it suffocated in the egg somehow in the hatching process, and it's tongue was protruding like something that was choking or something. The egg itself was COMPLETELY collaspsed around it, almost as if the baby had sucked all of the oxygen out of the egg itself. There was quite a bit of fluid left in the egg however.

So I guess my question is this - in the actual emerging process, are the babies breathing oxygen at all before they pip? Any idea on what could have caused this? The baby was fully formed, and looked totally normal and the yolk sac was fully intact. We have another egg sweating, and have made sure there is more air in the container by moving the lid partially off. I just don't want it to happen again.

Surprisingly, we found out that baby agamas are about the same size as baby dragons. This one was so adorable, and is a great loss. Hopefully the other 2 eggs/babies make it through.

Any ideas, advice, etc is highly appreciated!

Kelly Kordek

Hey Kelly-just so you know I am not ignoring you-I have no idea what happened...I will also be interested to know the answer to your questions...Take good care girl, B

Beth, I didn't figure you were ignoring me, don't worry.

The second egg had the same exact thing happen. The little one was in the exact same position (upside down) with the egg clinging to it like saran wrap, and was gone. I opened that egg to find that it did have a slight defect - it appears one eye socket never formed and there was no eyeball there either. The other eye was fine.

I will be calling the breeder here in a little bit to see what he thinks. My research efforts thusfar have proven worthless, as there is no CB info on these guys anywhere, and all the WC info I can find is dated back into the late 80s as the latest info.

I just realized I was logged in as Matt. That last reply was from Kelly. Sorry :-)

Kel- I am so very sorry !! I know as well as you do, you may never know the answer...just document this and try again, Love you B I really love you...B

Well, I will recount the entire saga, just for those interested. From this point I will post updates in the "other lizards" category.

Well, on Sunday night, one of the eggs started sweating, so we expected a baby very soon. Monday morning, we woke up to find the egg had completely collapsed around the baby like saran wrap, and the baby was dead. Apparently it had suffocated when trying to get out, as there were no nicks or openings in the egg at all. We opened the egg, and found the baby fully formed, but it was gone. We were confused as to why this had happened, but figured that something must have gone wrong while attempting to emerge.

Monday night, one of the other eggs started sweating. We debated on whether or not we should cut the egg, and decided against it, as neither Matt nor I had ever had the experience of cutting an egg before, and were not sure what the outcome would be. Tuesday morning, the baby was found dead in the egg with the same saran wrap like egg around it. When opening this egg, we found that the baby did have a defect - one eye socket apparently did not form, and it was missing the left eye completely. But, it too, was dead, and we were even more confused. I decided to make a call to the breeder (Diamond Reptile in Florida), and spoke to Mitch about the issue. He suggested cutting the next egg when we noticed it sweating.

Sure enough, the last egg started sweating in the early evening last night (Tuesday). We went ahead and started to cut the egg a bit, hoping it would help the baby. We saw the baby moving around, and the fluid in the egg started to quickly drain out, and the egg started collapsing quickly, shutting off the cut. We had a quick decision to make, and decided to go ahead and pull the entire egg off of the baby. At this point, we really were not sure if this was the best decision, but we did not want to have the baby suffocate because of the egg falling in around it the way the other 2 had done. The "operation" was not an easy one, as the egg was very spongy and started to cling to the baby very quickly, and we were concerned about the yolk sac being pulled or cut. After about 15 minutes, we were able to get the egg off of the baby, but it appeared to be too late. The yolk sac was fully formed, and the baby appeared to be fine, with the exception of a noticeable under bite. The yolk sac was a bit big, but still attached without any cuts, and he had a slimy casing around him which seemed attached to the yolk sac, so I did not mess with that. I pushed on him a few times, just to see what I could see, and the little one jerked back on me to let me know he was still alive! So we put him in a small container with moist paper towels, and put him back in the incubator, honestly not expecting him to make it.

This morning I woke up and went to check on the baby. He was still in the same position as when I last checked yesterday, and again, I feared the worst. So I pushed on him lightly, and moved his head a few times with no response. Then, to my surprise, he jerked himself back into the position he was in (a basic fetal position), letting me know, somehow, he is still kicking. Everything is exactly the same as it was last night, so I will not be bothering him much at all today, just checking to see if he is still going every few hours.

So this is where we are at with the research efforts, for lack of better terms. Unfortunately, there is not much information about these guys documented, and what I am able to find is about their life in the wild, mostly information dated back into the 80s. So this "project" has proven to be a bit more interesting than I originally thought. I will keep everyone updated on the little one's progress. Keep him in your thoughts please!

Kelly Kordek

Have you talked to Heartmountain? I would love to see what he has to say simply because he is our friend and can help maybe...I really feel for you girl...I really love your interest & compassion... you are extraordinary...I love your steadfastness for those you feel a responsibilty for...Kel you are awesome...B

I hadn't though about getting in touch with Sean. DUH!
I did have a conversation with another breeder, and he said it sounds like the eggs might have been overdue, and that they suffocated coming out.
Oh, the other little guy did not make it either. I feel so bad. But this does not mean we will not try again. Apparently these guys should be breeding again in about October according to the guy I got them from, so that means we have another chance at this. I will keep researching until then though.
Kel

And another chance it is...still talk to Sean...perhaps there is some commonality between reptile species when he comes to eggs and emergence. I hope that we all learn something from your experince..I just hate that it happened ...Take care B