Underground Reptiles Stay away!!

Sorry, don't know why/how Nick's post was quoted twice.

Originally Posted by Pasodama

Sorry, don't know why/how Nick's post was quoted twice.

I appreciate your input. When I was initially asking the OP questions it was not to accuse him/her or say he/she was lying, it was simply to make sure that the claim was valid...if someone had just sent me the underside of some gecko that was a male as their 'proof' and demand that I send them another female, I would ask for some actual evidence and assume they were scamming me. That was why I initially said that based on what was shown by the OP, UR offering a free replacement was pretty darn generous.

However, you make a very good point. They were lurking on this thread for a long time and can obviously see that the OP is upset. Regardless of what was shown to them initially, there ARE pictures now showing that two males were, in fact, received, instead of the promised 1.2 ratio. In a case like this, where a solution would be as simple as sending a $20 refund, it's sad that they won't even acknowledge the issue.

Originally Posted by MCMB-2

I honestly haven't seen any proof of Ryan making any threats, but you definitely are. I'm not on anyone's side, but you might want to stop accusing people of things that you are blatantly doing yourself.

Well I am back now and ready to dedicate(waste) some time on this ridiculous nonsense. I will be laying out all the facts here and posting corroborating them with actual emails. If you read my post i said Rian not Ryan CALLED me on the PHONE and threatened me. If you could absorb and retain information you intake visually you would know i can not prove that, unless i recorded the conversation. What i do have is proof that i was called on my cell phone multiple times after posting by Rian the owner. I was called and threatened in a similar way a highschool kid would do then subsequently called multiple times in a harassing manner. I actually told him not to call me again and he said he would call me as much as he wanted. So you can look at the behaviors exhibited look at some patterns and come to your own conclusion. When you look at history,and read between the lines. You will see the loosely veiled threats he is careful not to put in text. Anyone who knows underground knows they ALWAYS try to do everything via phone so there is absolutely no record. It is very difficult to pin them down in an email. look at their go to response. It is ALWAYS give us a call we will work it out. Always a call. Anyway i am going to type out my post and get back on in a bit.

Rian is the one who references hiding behind a keyboard,beating me up as a kid,promises to "not hit the guy"
Nick what do you think they mean? If he doesnt intend to get in a physical altercation why does it matter how we communicate? I mean the only difference between a phone call an email or text message and not "hiding behind a keyboard" is that we will be in physical proximity. Do you think Rian wants to hug? So if you take these veiled references and what i heard on the phone you will quickly understand my post.
I mean Rian Gittman went to the trouble of getting my number calling me on my cellphone to be confrontational so yes i told him that when he threatened me 3 years ago on the phone and email he crossed the line.He again threatened me and yes i came unglued.I cussed boo hoo and i told him some impolite things about what i would do to him in person since he likes to threaten me. I am sorry RIAN and Ryan are so sensetive that they cant tolerate foul language from people after they screw them out of money or threaten them. I thoroughly enjoy the posts by both of them attempting to discredit me and acting like they are so insulted by my language. So first they screw me out of roughly $1200.00 then they try to blame me for it and then when i have had enough of their crap and start smack talking his B.S. promotion of faith and christianity he gets all pissy and threatens me? Give me a break.

It's never ever Undergrounds fault for anything they do. And to top it off he has god on his side so what you think doesn't matter. I guess when they are going around screwing people left and right there is only one set of footprints in the sand.

Originally Posted by RyanB

As far as the personal attacks from Jay and calling people punks. The reality is he is a bitter nasty man who wrote fowl things to me and threatened us simply because we no longer buy from him. 4 years ago at the Daytona expo he agreed to sell us axolotls that we would sell at our table. He had been supplying us already for several months up to that point. He decided to then keep his axolotls to sell at his own table, which is fine, but then tried to sell us what he had leftover so he did not have to take them home. We thanked him but declined. Evidently he did not like that because when he got home he decided to stop selling to us, threatened us, made nasty remarks about our faith(which regardless of whether or not you agree with someones faith is a terrible thing to do), and swore at us vehemently. Which to be honest is fine I know the kind of person Jay is and I know he only feels comfortable doing that sort of thing from behind a keyboard. By the way no one threatened you Jay we asked you what your problem is at which point like the child you are you resorted to vulgarity and threats. In any case I appreciate the time those take to read through this and though I may rarely come on here to post going forward, due to time constraints, I welcome anyone's calls or questions. As I stated on here before there are several people who know me and will vouch for my character. I am reasonable and I love this hobby. For those saying we are in it for the money, I agree. This job pays my bills. The only people who are not in it for the money are those in rescues(most of the time) and those giving away animals at cost or less. To be in this hobby to make money doesn't mean you love it less, if anything I think it means you have dedicated your life to it all the more.

Ryan Borkan

You seem to have your facts a little mixed up in your attempt to discredit me. Let me clarify them for you.

You guys were ordering axolotls from me with pretty good frequency for months leading up to Daytona of 2011. You had asked a few months before daytona if i would prepare to have an order available for you to deliver for the Daytona show. I informed you that i was vending that show and you said you still wanted them. Through the months leading up to daytona you continued to ask and remind me of the order for daytona. I said it was not a problem i would have your 100-150 for you (you guys never really gave me an actually number or types you just said 100-150) I told you repeatedly i was vending and who i was meeting in Daytona(what friends i would be with) I had people from all over the world with me. You said you guys had no problem and still wanted the order.I also help by being a liaison between you and my very good frind from Japan(Yusuke Murai of Samurai Japan Reptiles) to work out the acquisition of some pacman frogs. He was to deliver an order to Daytona as well(you guys also bailed on following through on his deal) and that was that.

DAYTONA ARRIVES!

So i individually packed up and sorted your order personally with an employee and put my wife and 3 children in the car and drove straight through from Kansas City to Daytona. I arrived late afternoon just before set up closed. It took a little longer we had to stop a few times more than expected because our youngest wasn't even 2 months old! I walked straight to your table and told you i had your animals and i couldnt bring them in because setup was over and i wanted to go through them all and do water changes. I said the only small issue is i didnt have many melanoids and that what i would do to be fair is split them with you so i wouldnt have the monopoly and you could still have all types to display. At that point Rian Gittman turns around and interupted the conversation between me and his right hand man Ryan Borkan. He looked at me and said wait you're vending? I said yes i am. He said so you're going to be competing against us? I said i guess if that's how you want to look at it. But there are alot of breeders here you buy from so you are competing with them also and it is only one weekend out of the year, you still have a business that needs what you don't sell here. I also brought up that i had discussed this multiple times with Ryan B. and he knew I was coming. I said i will go through everything and call you to meet up and get you your animals for the morning. At that point i left to meet all my friends that were coming. I went through all my stuff and called you while i was in an elevator going to the lobby. You did not answer. I called an hour or two later again...no answer. I called saturday morning no answer. said come to the table to get your stuff. NO call NO show. things got busy. at some point you finally popped up sunday and said some BS about how you were going to hold off and just stick to ordering and having them shipped. I asked about Yusukes frogs and you said you "heard from people" that he was selling his frogs off the table for the same price he was offering them to you wholesale and that you didnt want them. That was a complete lie and you know it. You hit me up via phone monday morning to order axolotls. I thought to myself is this a freaking joke?I am still hanging out in Florida and i hand delivered your order from Kansas City and you guys didnt take it!!!!!!!! And now you want me to ship an order when you were standing feet from it 2 days ago? I sold out of axolotls in Daytona. including the ones i brought for you some wholesale some retail. and you acted like you did me a favor by not taking the order you guys bugged me about for months and i delivered.

I did not sell me axolotls cheaper than you that is a lie. In fact that is what underground reptiles does. In fact when you started buying from me your first ads for axolotls were for 5-10 dollars less than my advertised prices on the same classifieds so you guys actually did that to me. You have an undeniable reputation for that i might ad. You buy large groups of animals wholesale. sell half to strictly for an upcharge and then you sell your remaining animals cheap because you have less in them than what you paid.

Ok here are some emails i could find. I brought up daytona and the fact that they did not take their order i delivered. RYAN said he won't get into the issue of Daytona. OH i see you guys screw me and then want to act like nothing happened. You guys thought i was just going to take that and forget it happened? So i highlited some of the relevent points and notice no one argued or denied my statements. about backing out of a deal. in fact i was told i was done a favor by Underground not taking their order. and now you come on the BOI and completely disregard facts. talking about my vulgarity?i had to censor one word in all of my emails unless i missed one. Cant wait to see the reply from underground. I also will post pics of the phonecalls i just ran out of time and i probably cant get on here again until tomorrow.



----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Btm Exotics <btmexotics@yahoo.com>
To: Underground Reptiles <info@undergroundreptiles.com>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Few: Some picks

is that a threat? Sounds like one. You going to get stupid with me?You going to see me around? Stop emailing me. I will be in your neck of the woods you can deal with me then if you have a problem you want to take care of.

From: Underground Reptiles <info@undergroundreptiles.com>
To: 'Btm Exotics' <btmexotics@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 3:54 PM
Subject: RE: Few: Some picks

Exactly

Thanks

See you around

Rian

From: Btm Exotics [mailto:btmexotics@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 4:52 PM
To: Underground Reptiles
Subject: Re: Few: Some picks

yeah I wouldn't want you to get stupid.


From: Underground Reptiles < info@undergroundreptiles.com >
To: ' Btm Exotics ' <btmexotics@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 3:42 PM
Subject: RE: Few: Some picks
Alright stop now before this goes to stupid places

Take it easy all the best

Thanks for the past business

God Bless

Rian

From: Btm Exotics [mailto:btmexotics@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 4:19 PM
To: Underground Reptiles
Subject: Re: Few: Some picks

I am apparently more of a man than you.I also don't play games.I did sell out in Daytona.However that doesn't erase the fact that YOU backed out of our deal.Don't mix your ridiculous issue with Samurai Japan Reptile with your deal with me.Real men don't back out of a deal.You started playing games in Daytona not me. My god bless was sarcastic and was said just with as much bullshit as the "Cristian ethics" you so proudly display.I am not Cristian and don't pretend to be like some out their(wink wink) Ask yourself...what would Jesus do?Do you believe in your heart that your actions are in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ ?I mean seriously are you being a good little Christian right now?With your backing out of deals,confrontational emails and calling me names? As far as you making me money?Well you were selling my product not the other way around.Yeah i get paid...slowly.I shouldn't have to call and email multiple times to get payment.Especially on a drop ship that you have already been paid for before i ship.I am not going to continue wasting my time with you.I held up my end of the bargain.I showed up with your order and you didn't take it.You were trying some type of "teach me a lesson move" but that doesnt work on me.Plus I sold out so no lesson anyway.You cut your nose off to spite your face. Your were at the front of the pack. Now you are at the end of the line.No preferential treatment like late pay,or 100 lot pricing for all orders. Me grow up and be a man(such maturity displayed in your part by such an authentic bullshit hypocritical Christian)? very professional conduct this email calling me names and talking shit.Seriously stop emailing me.I won't ask nicely again. Underground reptiles hasn't changed a bit.The reputation from years ago stills rings true. Later guys!

-The anticrist

From: Underground Reptiles < info@undergroundreptiles.com >
To: btmexotics@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 2:45 PM
Subject: RE: Few: Some picks
Will do and thanks for the past year we made some great money off your stuff if you ever decide to grow up and be a man call us back

Rian

From: btmexotics@yahoo.com [mailto:btmexotics@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 3:41 PM
To: info@undergroundreptiles.com
Subject: Re: Few: Some picks

Really?what did I sell that was cheaper than your selling?if you are talking about yusukes pacman frogs that has nothing to do with me.I only took axolotls and sold them for more than you sell yours for. This whole good cop bad cop thing is cute though.I tell you what get your axolotls somewhere else.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
From: "Underground Reptiles" < info@undergroundreptiles.com >
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 15:29:25 -0400
To: ' Btm Exotics '<btmexotics@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Few: Some picks

Jay,

This is Rian the owner and I got to tell you my man that Ryan is bending over backwards to be kind to you and your choosing to be a jerk to him and we are not sure why. You sell us out at Daytona which was OK we don’t mind you come over to our table with a big fat better you all attitude and you sell stuff much cheaper than you told us you would the way I see it we should be POed at you.

So please drop the attitude be a straight shooter and just tell Ryan you aint interested in our business any more but stop being so stinking condescending like we did you wrong or something cos unless memory serves me wrong we sold thousands of dollars worth of animals for you and you never had a problem getting paid AND you said you sold out at Daytona so stop whining about what we didn’t buy I guess we did you a favor

Lastly please don’t bless me in God’s name if your gonna be a total jerk to us like that is your cloak of making it ok to be Mr. Attitude

Thanks

God Bless you too

Rian

From: Btm Exotics [mailto:btmexotics@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 1:24 PM
To: Underground Reptiles
Subject: Re: Fw: Some pics

I told you what I have.You pay in full from this point forward.Also the 100 lot pricing is only valid when you purchase 100 from this point forward.

God Bless.
-Jay

From: Underground Reptiles < info@undergroundreptiles.com >
To: btmexotics@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 12:18 PM
Subject: RE: Fw: Some pics

Jay,

I won't get into the whole issue of Daytona with you, we did want animals and I still do. I sold axolotyls as I always have since working with you. I, like you, didn't foesee a shortage. No big deal these things happen. In any case we need some, so when should I expect that you will have more available? Are you able to drop ship a small order for us? I am also happy to hear you did well at the show. Let me know if you can scrounge up anything. We have the FIRE show this weekend and it may be nice to bring even a few out, since I am pretty sure no one will have them there. They are hosting it in Orlando where the Daytona show used to meet and the venue looks good. Hope all else is well. Keep me posted. Thanks again.

Ryan B.
Underground Reptiles
(954)428-8005


From: btmexotics@yahoo.com [mailto:btmexotics@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 1:07 PM
To: info@undergroundreptiles.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Some pics
Sold out of everything in daytona.I sold over 350 axolotls.I have only wildtype,wildtype gfp,leucistic and leucistic gfp.they are not quite ready yet.you should have got your order in daytona.you would have had all varieties and 100 animals total but you chose not to.you should also be checking availability before you sell animals you don't have.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
From: "Underground Reptiles" < info@undergroundreptiles.com >
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:01:26 -0400
To: <btmexotics@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Fw: Some pics

Jay,

This is Ryan B. with underground reptiles. I am hoping you have some animals available but if not please let me know. I have a few customers waiting to get their animals. Also please let me know if you simply don't wish to work with us any longer, which if that is the case we will respect your wishes. We hope to continue to work with you but if not we wish you and your business the best. Please just let me know. Thank you.

Ryan B.
Underground Reptiles
(954)428-8005


From: btmexotics@yahoo.com [mailto:btmexotics@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 2:07 PM
To: info@undergroundreptiles.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Some pics
Sold out in daytona.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
From: "Underground Reptiles" < info@undergroundreptiles.com >
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 14:04:40 -0400
To: <btmexotics@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Fw: Some pics

You don't have any or you just don't want to work with us?

Ryan B.
Underground Reptiles
(954)428-8005


From: btmexotics@yahoo.com [mailto:btmexotics@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 1:24 PM
To: info@undergroundreptiles.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Some pics
Not possible.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
From: "Underground Reptiles" < info@undergroundreptiles.com >
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:56:44 -0400
To: ' Btm Exotics '<btmexotics@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Fw: Some pics

Jay,

I have been trying to get a hold of you tplace an order. Let me know if that is possible or not. Thank you.

Ryan B.
Underground Reptiles
(954)428-8005


From: Btm Exotics [mailto:btmexotics@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 7:03 PM
To: info@undergroundreptiles.com
Subject: Fw: Fw: Some pics


----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Samurai Japan Reptiles <samuraiyusuke1979@ybb.ne.jp>
To: btmexotics@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Some pics
OK
It's easy for me.

btmexotics@yahoo.com wrote:

I think they want you to bring to daytona
Sent on the Sprint召� Now Network from my BlackBerry召�
From: Samurai Japan Reptiles <samuraiyusuke1979@ybb.ne.jp>
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 04:11:01 +0900 (JST)
To: Btm Exotics<btmexotics@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Some pics

Yes.

3 S grade $375
4 A grade $340
6 C grade $270
8 2oz pacman food $ 40
5 4oz pacman food $ 40
shipping(orver night) $ 50

Total $1115

Paypal address is samuraijapanreptiles@gmail.com

I can ship on tomorrow for 17th morning.

Thank you
Yusuke


Btm Exotics <btmexotics@yahoo.com> wrote:

can you do this wholesale order for underground reptiles?

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Underground Reptiles < info@undergroundreptiles.com >
To: ' Btm Exotics ' <btmexotics@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 7:13 PM
Subject: RE: Some pics
Pacman frog order.

3 S grade
4 A grade
6 C grade
8 2oz pacman food
5 4oz pacman food

Ryan B.
Underground Reptiles
(954)428-8005


From: Btm Exotics [mailto:btmexotics@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 8:03 PM
To: info@undergroundreptiles.com
Subject: Fw: Some pics


----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Btm Exotics <btmexotics@yahoo.com>
To: info@undergroundreptiles.com ; Samurai Japan Reptiles <samuraiyusuke1979@ybb.ne.jp>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:04 PM
Subject: Some pics

Ryan there is alot of confusion and bad information about blue pacmans and Samurai pacmans.I will explain all of the similarities and differences when I talk to you next time.










*******************************************
Samurai-Japan Reptiles
< Japan office> < USA office>
1118-2 Naka 1345.N.Dynamics St #D
Tsuchiura-Shi IBARAKI Anaheim CA 92806
300-0841
http://www.samurep.jp http://www.pacmanfood.com/



*******************************************
Samurai-Japan Reptiles
< Japan office> < USA office>
1118-2 Naka 1345.N.Dynamics St #D
Tsuchiura-Shi IBARAKI Anaheim CA 92806
300-0841
http://www.samurep.jp http://www.pacmanfood.com/

I am apparently more of a man than you.I also don't play games.I did sell out in Daytona.However that doesn't erase the fact that YOU backed out of our deal.Don't mix your ridiculous issue with Samurai Japan Reptile with your deal with me.Real men don't back out of a deal.You started playing games in Daytona not me. My god bless was sarcastic and was said just with as much bullshit as the "Cristian ethics" you so proudly display.I am not Cristian and don't pretend to be like some out their(wink wink) Ask yourself...what would Jesus do?Do you believe in your heart that your actions are in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ ?I mean seriously are you being a good little Christian right now?With your backing out of deals,confrontational emails and calling me names? As far as you making me money?Well you were selling my product not the other way around.Yeah i get paid...slowly.I shouldn't have to call and email multiple times to get payment.Especially on a drop ship that you have already been paid for before i ship.I am not going to continue wasting my time with you.I held up my end of the bargain.I showed up with your order and you didn't take it.You were trying some type of "teach me a lesson move" but that doesnt work on me.Plus I sold out so no lesson anyway.You cut your nose off to spite your face. Your were at the front of the pack. Now you are at the end of the line.No preferential treatment like late pay,or 100 lot pricing for all orders. Me grow up and be a man(such maturity displayed in your part by such an authentic bullshit hypocritical Christian)? very professional conduct this email calling me names and talking shit.Seriously stop emailing me.I won't ask nicely again. Underground reptiles hasn't changed a bit.The reputation from years ago stills rings true. Later guys!

I must have missed the threats in all that.
Saying "see you around" after saying that he hopes you can do business again in the future does not sound like a threat. Saying lets not take this to stupid places after you attack his religeon doesn't sound like a threat either.

Chris you are kidding right? Yes poor rian gittman he is such a victim. After he ripped me off for 1200.00 and my friend yusuke for over 1500.00 I made it clear that he does not conduct business in line with the teachings of his church in a sarcastic way. I am such a vulgar meanie. I did not attack his religion I attacked him. And if you read my post there were phone calls made by him.