Feeding neonates

I've been thinking about the common delima of starting neonate Indigos to feed. It seems to me that we should try to figure out what a neonate Indigo would most likely encounter for it's first meal in the wild. Since neonates spend most of their time hiding, I would think that would be one of these; frogs, tadpoles, toads, salmanders, and newts. The only thing that would concerne me, would be the possible toxicity from the last three. What are your thoughts? Does anyone concur? Does anyone think it would be a bad idea to feed frozen/thawed toads, newts, or salamanders to neonate Indigos, and why? And what of insects, grubs, or worms? These would also be commonly found in the hiding spots of a young snake. Let's have some thoughts on this. Thanks,
T.

I agree with your list. Baby indigos are small, frightened, not terribly formidable, and tend to live in a wetter environment than the adults (from what I’ve read). Amphibians, fish, and invertebrates seem to be the types of things they would eat right off the bat. I have heard (and can only imagine) that amphibians a mess after defrosting.

I’d think that worms and large slugs and the like would catch the eye of a young indigo as well.

Fish worked for me. My baby indigo was putting up a good hunger strike when I got her. I finally tried a live pinky (before I had tried frozen pinkies and frozen pinkies scented with chicken broth). She showed curiosity to the live pinky, nudging it (and I think biting it once as I heard the poor thing squeal), but then went back into her den. I then scented the pinky with tuna juice (I had come across it in a post somewhere and had a can handy). Then I dumped the mouse directly into the snake’s hide. She freaked out at first but then ate the pinky within a minute (probably a combination of the fish smell and getting pissed that her haven was invaded).

So that’s what I had success with – the scent of fish and exciting the indigo by dumping the prey right in front of it (in that excited state…she was more likely, I think, to bite the prey and if she did that, instincts would probably kick in and she would swallow it, as she did).

Yes, some degree of success has been reported with the use of tuna juice and goldfish scent. But I'd like to avoid the above described scenario, and give them what they most likely want from the getgo. If I can figure out what they want before hand, hopefully I won't have any reluctant starters. Reduce stress on both of us. Then work on scenting, and getting them switched over later. Who knows,... there might even be some health benifits from keeping it as close to natural as possible.
T.

Indigos are often reluctant feeders right at the very start. Trust me, people have tried just about every possible prey item there is. However there are a couple things that work really well for most babies that require nothing special:

1-Leave them alone. Drop the food in and don't go near them for hours. Any movement or even just being able to see the room might spook them.

2-Be patient. Often it's a matter of letting them just settle, perhaps even digesting all the yolk in their belly.

My personal favorite scenting item for those who don't go along with the program is herring. It doesn't always work, but I've seen it make a baby indigo so crazy to feed he would bite himself where part of the herring scented pink touched his body.

If you have access to skinks and frogs and whatever. Try 'em and let everyone know.

Doug T

The two most recuring themes seem to be fish scent, and security/privacy, when getting them started. This seems to be the general consensus. However, being the stubborn individual that I am, I'm in search of that one "magic bullet" so to speek. So what I really want to know is, are there any possible toxic effects from salamanders and newts? Skinks, and anoles sound like a good idea as well.

And I'd also like to know if anyone has ever had an Indigo, that never did start feeding on it's own? And what's the longest initial hunger strike you have each experienced? Thanks,
T.

Wild indigos from a given area will be hardwired to recognize whatever prey item is normally abundant in that area at hatching time. (What we know as a genetically passed on characteristic called instinct). In one part of their range it may be frogs, another mice, another fish, and on and on with salamanders, nesting birds, toads, anoles, skinks etc. By not using locality data to choose which pair we put together to bred ( No one thinks twice about crossing a Southern GA D.c.c with a Florida Keys D.c.c) the D.c.c breeders have completely short circuited their built in ability to recognise their "first meal".

Does this make sense? Comments please....

Exelent answere!!! I would be inclined to agree with the preceeding statement %100! I would further surmise that the Eastern Indigo should be classified into two separate subspecies. I think this may have a lot to do with many of the inconsistancies of feeding, breeding, fertility, and so on. I personaly believe we have, in the wild at least, two seperate subspecies. The fact that we have overlapping geographical ranges, does not seem to be an issue for several other Drymarchon subspecies, who's only apparent difference is color. So why shouldn't the same rules apply to Couperi. I would submit that the only reason that Couperi has not been sub classified, is because the color difference is to subtle. And now, I fear that the dammage may have been irreversably done to the captive gene pool. If scientists/ herpetologists where to take a closer look at this issue, they might be inclined to agree. At which time we could probably get busy, and start work to rectify the situation. That is, at least, if there is anything we can do to straighten out the gene captive pool.
T.

I bought a cb unicolor baby that hadn't eaten his first meal several months ago. He had been assist fed pinkies weekly before i got him. i started tube feeding every 3 or 4 days to get some size on him(in which he put on good size for several weeks). i finally got him to eat a small live toad. then started scenting live fuzzies.(he wouldn't eat sented live pinkies) then to unscented live hoppers. now at 6 months old he's gone from 11" to 32" and eating f/t small adult mice. SteveH