Manny Frade of Prefect Predators

Originally Posted by tommyhil4_6

You dog for lack of transparency, yet you won't openly reveal who "led you to believe" Manny was doing under the table deals.

It's "hearsay" and like in court, shouldn't be admissible based under "assumptions". Another big breeder? If he/she is big enough to plant supposed seeds of deception in peoples' minds, I don't see why they wouldn't feel confident in coming forward supporting your claims? Also, were you told this, OR were you given photographs/proof above an beyond typed letters?

Being the devil's advocate on this one. My deals with Manny have always gone smooth. Trying to clarify specific details that are potentially clouded perspectives.

It's customary to release "proposed" peoples names if brought into the BOI when they are mentioned and remain unkown.

regardless of the "hear say" he still didn't show proof of the slugged litters, he still didn't disclose needed information, and still refuses a picture update on my snake when I ask for it...again enough reason for me to get my boa back

Originally Posted by jendee

yes lol of course he claims that!! that's what he said after I asked for my snake back scroll back to when he first offered the vpi

Question. You are now contending again that the VPI was for the first term loan? Not the second? Because in your previous emails you conceded that he indeed did plan the vpi for the second season and "you were screwed".

If you conceded that the misunderstanding was on your part, then indeed the VPI was used for the potential 2nd breeding "Season/time frame" and you would also get a 1.1 if litters were born.

Just trying to keep it straight. If your contention is now that you are owed your male + keep the vpi without Manny finishing the breeding season... that is different then in the email of conceding your misunderstanding.

Also, It is January. Like I said, time frame is dependent. Big breeders breed year round and it is dependent on the time breeding/ovs/re intros etc. It's not like a November - January 15th cut off. Biology is biology.

I can understand being impatient, but much of this might have been avoided had a phone call been placed to truly iron any grievances/misunderstandings vs. emails. If you did call, then that is a positive move.

Originally Posted by tommyhil4_6

Question. You are now contending again that the VPI was for the first term loan? Not the second? Because in your previous emails you conceded that he indeed did plan the vpi for the second season and "you were screwed".

If you conceded that the misunderstanding was on your part, then indeed the VPI was used for the potential 2nd breeding "Season/time frame" and you would also get a 1.1 if litters were born.

Just trying to keep it straight. If your contention is now that you are owed your male + keep the vpi without Manny finishing the breeding season... that is different then in the email of conceding your misunderstanding.

Also, It is January. Like I said, time frame is dependent. Big breeders breed year round and it is dependent on the time breeding/ovs/re intros etc. It's not like a November - January 15th cut off. Biology is biology.

I can understand being impatient, but much of this might have been avoided had a phone call been placed to truly iron any grievances/misunderstandings vs. emails. If you did call, then that is a positive move.

and then I went through again and read them again realizing that he repeatedly asked me to "what the deal was" even though he offered the deal so he can twist my words around and have the foot hold that he thinks he has but as stated it was a renters fee hes had my boa since 2011!!! rent is over, I know longer trust him for obvious reasons past the here say!! he says he is not breeding anyway so whats the use of keeping him?? He wont send me a picture?? why because he is probably busy....
why would I call so that there would be no record of him screwing me, no thank you emails leave a lovely paper trail
what is he paying you off or something because your argument is weak. He has been in the least bit professional and I want my snake back

Im exremely busy so i will past 1 time answer everyones questions 1 time. Jendee approached me in late 2011 about sending me a male Squaretail, we agreed on 1.1, which was her offer. i was going to place him with some really high dollar females and we made an agreement, after 1 month of waiting for her email about shipping, and having the female laying around waiting on the arrival i wrote to her to see what was the hold up- she said she had 2nd thoughts and was planning on sending him to brandon nixon instead. So from the start she was always very flaky. After i told her i was waiting on her and that she could of just told me this she changed her mind and shipped. I should of known then she was not a good person to deal with, but i gave her the benefit of the doubt as i know shipping off you animal to a stranger youve never dealt with before is outside of anyones comfort zone.

When he arrived i was surprised how red and beautiful he was, and in good shape. i still quarantined him and he passed all inspections, put him in with the female. for being a little 18 month - 2 year old i was very encouraged how he immediately went to work. took photos sent them to her. after a while he stopped being interested in his first mate, fed him placed him back after 3-4 days nothing. so i put him with another to see if it was her or him that was done for the season, he went straight to work on girl #2 and i was encouraged again, kept her abreast every step of the way, after a couple weeks again he went into a week of no work, i do as usual take advantage to feed and put back or move 1 more if no interest on to another girl. he went to town on #3 again, but soon after got bored. this is how 2012 went by tax day he was placed to rest, waited to see if any of the 3 girls ovulated or had litters in them which i did not witness and ovulation of POS and he was fed and maintained optimal, infact by august he had grown a good 8-12 inches and put on a pound easily. 2 of the girls dropped what look like slugs and 1 did nothing the key west. If they were unfertilized ova and IF they were small they were small amounts as they were caught days after under the bedding, not like a usual slug out where the female makes a nest and leaves a mess.

I always assumed we were going to try in 2013 but one day she asked what should we do? i had promised her a boa as a token of appreciation as nothing happened under my watch as we all hoped but yet we did make a lot of litters and thought it was good sign of friendship (which we sort of had become as she would write and tell me things about her, her and other breeders such as brandon nixon etc.) we called it a credit. BUt she got greedy and asks for a male VPI T+, im sorry but thats a $1200-1500 and she loaned me a $500-600 boa. I had imagined a motley het albino a hypo jungle or something. So when she proposed that i immediately asked, so what does that mean for the Squaretail cause i'll be damned if im returning the squaretail and sending her a VPI T male, im nice but im not santa clause and this was july/august not december. her reply was black and white keep him for another year. So it was like paying rent and we agreed thats exactly what it was. And i get it, she could have him and use him on something and keep everything he makes, BUT i put a big amount of time and meals in him and I figured now that he's matured here, it would be stupid to just let him go now and not try 1 more time and put some of his deep red into something here. and for 1.1 out of the litter, which generally are 12-30 babies it was still a good deal as i was and am confident he can do a good job.

THEN sometime in September and October she comes at me sideways with send my back my male you are shady, you are sneaky you are this you are that we are not going to do a loan 1 more year. I said no problem send me back my VPI. shes says that was for last year, thats got nothing to do with 2013, at this point i no longer thought she was nuts, now i knew she was crazy. I said Jendee look in your FB convo. after hours of reading, re-reading and going over the conversation from the summer she admitted i was right and it was "her bad" or something like that. but she said i dont trust you, i know you made squaretails, i was told you were selling them under table you're sneaky..blah blah blah. Like if i made squaretails i wouldnt just pay her the 1.1 and move on with my life, why would anyone be hiding a litter of squaretails?? and not pay her the small fee? btw i only lend my animals for 1/2 the litter, her offer of 1.1 was a great deal and would pay her more if the litter was a good one. she apologized, she admitted she's been going through work troubles and we said no problem.

In mid November i noticed my Key West female looking plumpy and i placed her male on her, perhaps my favorite female het for nothing in my room. i immediately put up pictures tagged her and so far still cool.

Then on Christmas day, she writes, i dont care its Christmas, send me pictures of the pair, you're hiding something i know it. I ignored it, it was too great a day to let her kill it, my kids were in full glee i was recording awesome movies of my 9 month olds first christmas and i wasnt going to let her boil my blood again cause her Christmas was sucking.

Again then yesterday she comes at me with you sneaky you this you that, why did you remove my tag off the photo of my male you posted up last month blah blah blah, what are you up to, blah blah blah. after 20 minutes of insults and me searching all over facebook i found the picture she was accusing me of removing her from and nothing was changed. her reply was "my bad" "why couldnt i find it in my facebook folder then"... what do i look like tech support. go call facebook. F-off Lady. i told her multiple times and i'll say it again, im breeding her male in grievance right now not by choice, because i much rather have back my VPI i sent her, and i'll send her another less valuable boa and i'll return her male, cause its not fun dealing with her. But now i have 1500 into this deal and im trying to make something happen. Her male is acting similarly again, he gets enthusiastic then he loses interest. same as last year. I can only keep trying, we have great breeding results here so its nothing wrong with the conditions here, some males sometimes will take 3-4 seasons to get it right. its boas, it how it goes sometimes. Ive told her to lets reverse the deal and she wont, shes greedy and nuts.

in recap I feel i paid handsomely to have him 1 more year (3x his market value easy). i feel like ive took excellent care of him and i deserve to be treated with respect as a paying person should. Also i should be asked questions nicely and not be treated like ive done something wrong. She doesnt tell me what animals did i sell under the table that belong to her, she doest tell me who accused me so i can face my accuser, she doesnt speak to me she barks orders at me, and im sorry but thats not the way i want to be treated. At this point she got a picture of her male, he's doing nothing now, when i have a moment i'll post something on facebook and tag her, if he makes it happen i'll update her, but she is not getting the treatment she wants as i am not getting the treatment i deserve. ive done nothing sneaky, ive had no luck with her male, paid handsomely to keep him again and have kept up to every thing i said i would. her paranoia and mad juju towards me is one made up in her mind.

Originally Posted by tommyhil4_6

You dog for lack of transparency, yet you won't openly reveal who "led you to believe" Manny was doing under the table deals.

It's "hearsay" and like in court, shouldn't be admissible based under "assumptions". Another big breeder? If he/she is big enough to plant supposed seeds of deception in peoples' minds, I don't see why they wouldn't feel confident in coming forward supporting your claims? Also, were you told this, OR were you given photographs/proof above an beyond typed letters?

Being the devil's advocate on this one. My deals with Manny have always gone smooth. Trying to clarify specific details that are potentially clouded perspectives. I'd think that it's pretty clear, to anyone who actually read the exchanges, that manny morphed the deal to suit his own purposes. I can't help finding it noteworthy that the person trying hardest not to see that just happens to be a customer of his.

It's customary to release "proposed" peoples names if brought into the BOI when they are mentioned and remain unkown.

The "hearsay" is entirely irrelevant to the situation. Even if she had decided purely on a whim that she wanted her snake back, without actively having any suspicions, she'd be no less right in expecting it to be returned. Since it was never said - until well after the fact - that the VPI was for anything other than "rent" for the time he already spent with manny, there's no call to be holding her animal hostage.

Much like manny's last thread, I can't help thinking that the bold text is a huge factor in your support for him. Fishing for some of those manny hookups, maybe? I certainly hope you get something out of the deal. Otherwise, I can't even begin to understand your thought processing or motives.

[quote=perfectpredators;1560468]Im exremely busy so i will past 1 time answer everyones questions 1 time. Jendee approached me in late 2011 about sending me a male Squaretail, we agreed on 1.1, which was her offer. i was going to place him with some really high dollar females and we made an agreement, after 1 month of waiting for her email about shipping, and having the female laying around waiting on the arrival i wrote to her to see what was the hold up- she said she had 2nd thoughts and was planning on sending him to brandon nixon instead. So from the start she was always very flaky. After i told her i was waiting on her and that she could of just told me this she changed her mind and shipped. I should of known then she was not a good person to deal with, but i gave her the benefit of the doubt as i know shipping off you animal to a stranger youve never dealt with before is outside of anyones comfort zone."

bingo lie right there!! I was in the process of getting my boa back from Brandon Nixon as that loan didn't work out well either...please show proof of this conversation lmao!!

Originally Posted by perfectpredators

Im exremely busy so i will past 1 time answer everyones questions 1 time. Jendee approached me in late 2011 about sending me a male Squaretail, we agreed on 1.1, which was her offer. i was going to place him with some really high dollar females and we made an agreement, after 1 month of waiting for her email about shipping, and having the female laying around waiting on the arrival i wrote to her to see what was the hold up- she said she had 2nd thoughts and was planning on sending him to brandon nixon instead. So from the start she was always very flaky. After i told her i was waiting on her and that she could of just told me this she changed her mind and shipped. I should of known then she was not a good person to deal with, but i gave her the benefit of the doubt as i know shipping off you animal to a stranger youve never dealt with before is outside of anyones comfort zone.

When he arrived i was surprised how red and beautiful he was, and in good shape. i still quarantined him and he passed all inspections, put him in with the female. for being a little 18 month - 2 year old i was very encouraged how he immediately went to work. took photos sent them to her. after a while he stopped being interested in his first mate, fed him placed him back after 3-4 days nothing. so i put him with another to see if it was her or him that was done for the season, he went straight to work on girl #2 and i was encouraged again, kept her abreast every step of the way, after a couple weeks again he went into a week of no work, i do as usual take advantage to feed and put back or move 1 more if no interest on to another girl. he went to town on #3 again, but soon after got bored. this is how 2012 went by tax day he was placed to rest, waited to see if any of the 3 girls ovulated or had litters in them which i did not witness and ovulation of POS and he was fed and maintained optimal, infact by august he had grown a good 8-12 inches and put on a pound easily. 2 of the girls dropped what look like slugs and 1 did nothing the key west. If they were unfertilized ova and IF they were small they were small amounts as they were caught days after under the bedding, not like a usual slug out where the female makes a nest and leaves a mess.

I always assumed we were going to try in 2013 but one day she asked what should we do? i had promised her a boa as a token of appreciation as nothing happened under my watch as we all hoped but yet we did make a lot of litters and thought it was good sign of friendship (which we sort of had become as she would write and tell me things about her, her and other breeders such as brandon nixon etc.) we called it a credit. BUt she got greedy and asks for a male VPI T+, im sorry but thats a $1200-1500 and she loaned me a $500-600 boa. I had imagined a motley het albino a hypo jungle or something. So when she proposed that i immediately asked, so what does that mean for the Squaretail cause i'll be damned if im returning the squaretail and sending her a VPI T male, im nice but im not santa clause and this was july/august not december. her reply was black and white keep him for another year. So it was like paying rent and we agreed thats exactly what it was. And i get it, she could have him and use him on something and keep everything he makes, BUT i put a big amount of time and meals in him and I figured now that he's matured here, it would be stupid to just let him go now and not try 1 more time and put some of his deep red into something here. and for 1.1 out of the litter, which generally are 12-30 babies it was still a good deal as i was and am confident he can do a good job.

THEN sometime in September and October she comes at me sideways with send my back my male you are shady, you are sneaky you are this you are that we are not going to do a loan 1 more year. I said no problem send me back my VPI. shes says that was for last year, thats got nothing to do with 2013, at this point i no longer thought she was nuts, now i knew she was crazy. I said Jendee look in your FB convo. after hours of reading, re-reading and going over the conversation from the summer she admitted i was right and it was "her bad" or something like that. but she said i dont trust you, i know you made squaretails, i was told you were selling them under table you're sneaky..blah blah blah. Like if i made squaretails i wouldnt just pay her the 1.1 and move on with my life, why would anyone be hiding a litter of squaretails?? and not pay her the small fee? btw i only lend my animals for 1/2 the litter, her offer of 1.1 was a great deal and would pay her more if the litter was a good one. she apologized, she admitted she's been going through work troubles and we said no problem.

In mid November i noticed my Key West female looking plumpy and i placed her male on her, perhaps my favorite female het for nothing in my room. i immediately put up pictures tagged her and so far still cool.

Then on Christmas day, she writes, i dont care its Christmas, send me pictures of the pair, you're hiding something i know it. I ignored it, it was too great a day to let her kill it, my kids were in full glee i was recording awesome movies of my 9 month olds first christmas and i wasnt going to let her boil my blood again cause her Christmas was sucking.

Again then yesterday she comes at me with you sneaky you this you that, why did you remove my tag off the photo of my male you posted up last month blah blah blah, what are you up to, blah blah blah. after 20 minutes of insults and me searching all over facebook i found the picture she was accusing me of removing her from and nothing was changed. her reply was "my bad" "why couldnt i find it in my facebook folder then"... what do i look like tech support. go call facebook. F-off Lady. i told her multiple times and i'll say it again, im breeding her male in grievance right now not by choice, because i much rather have back my VPI i sent her, and i'll send her another less valuable boa and i'll return her male, cause its not fun dealing with her. But now i have 1500 into this deal and im trying to make something happen. Her male is acting similarly again, he gets enthusiastic then he loses interest. same as last year. I can only keep trying, we have great breeding results here so its nothing wrong with the conditions here, some males sometimes will take 3-4 seasons to get it right. its boas, it how it goes sometimes. Ive told her to lets reverse the deal and she wont, shes greedy and nuts.

in recap I feel i paid handsomely to have him 1 more year (3x his market value easy). i feel like ive took excellent care of him and i deserve to be treated with respect as a paying person should. Also i should be asked questions nicely and not be treated like ive done something wrong. She doesnt tell me what animals did i sell under the table that belong to her, she doest tell me who accused me so i can face my accuser, she doesnt speak to me she barks orders at me, and im sorry but thats not the way i want to be treated. At this point she got a picture of her male, he's doing nothing now, when i have a moment i'll post something on facebook and tag her, if he makes it happen i'll update her, but she is not getting the treatment she wants as i am not getting the treatment i deserve. ive done nothing sneaky, ive had no luck with her male, paid handsomely to keep him again and have kept up to every thing i said i would. her paranoia and mad juju towards me is one made up in her mind.

you know what many all of this what your "saying" right now...where are these conversations..inquiring minds would like to know..please just send me snake back and cut the bull

Originally Posted by ApexPredatorBoids

The "hearsay" is entirely irrelevant to the situation. Even if she had decided purely on a whim that she wanted her snake back, without actively having any suspicions, she'd be no less right in expecting it to be returned. Since it was never said - until well after the fact - that the VPI was for anything other than "rent" for the time he already spent with manny, there's no call to be holding her animal hostage.

Much like manny's last thread, I can't help thinking that the bold text is a huge factor in your support for him. Fishing for some of those manny hookups, maybe? I certainly hope you get something out of the deal. Otherwise, I can't even begin to understand your thought processing or motives.

Of course I support someone who has done right by me. Manny owes me nothing for my defense of him. He's been good to me and Jendee seems to illicit issues with the "big boys" when she plays the game.

Jendee has a track record of having bad breeder loans it seems. Is it always the "breeders" problem? If it's a continual issue, then there is more then what's on the surface. Crap always floats to the top.

SHE conceded the VPI was for the next season. I have no motives.

I pay CASH for my snakes up front, one time. I'm not on trial and i've had nothing but positive deals from people.

Don't bully me with your assumptions of why i'm calling Jendee on her wording. She conceded, it's that simple. Breeding season isn't over. The deal was the male would be sent back when the season is over. She agreed previously. Simple as that.

I don't finagle and bargain or argue a point. Sell me a snake or don't, I don't care. I can purchase any snake in this industry at a whim, I don't need deals. Thanks for that assumption though.

And to add. Should Manny take pics and send em? Absolutely. Update on what female he is with as well. If that is done, what was the point of this entire charade?

IF, the male is truly being un-used. He should send it back. IF there is potential for the male to be placed as the season is still young, he has the right CONCEDED by Jendee.

Originally Posted by tommyhil4_6

Of course I support someone who has done right by me. Manny owes me nothing for my defense of him. He's been good to me and Jendee seems to illicit issues with the "big boys" when she plays the game.

Jendee has a track record of having bad breeder loans it seems. Is it always the "breeders" problem? If it's a continual issue, then there is more then what's on the surface. Crap always floats to the top.

SHE conceded the VPI was for the next season. I have no motives.

I pay CASH for my snakes up front, one time. I'm not on trial and i've had nothing but positive deals from people.

Don't bully me with your assumptions of why i'm calling Jendee on her wording. She conceded, it's that simple. Breeding season isn't over. The deal was the male would be sent back when the season is over. She agreed previously. Simple as that.

I don't finagle and bargain or argue a point. Sell me a snake or don't, I don't care. I can purchase any snake in this industry at a whim, I don't need deals. Thanks for that assumption though.

I did have 2 loans in my entire life..both were no good and yes Im no longer doing loans. me and Brandon have fixed things and talk daily, what happened with him does indeed happen I was upset at how he handled it. But we are fine now. this man is high jacking my boa completely different situations


Manny..your talking about Christmas mentioning your kids to pull at heart strings if you haven't noticed I posted all of that...as I contacted you before Christmas and then again before Christmas...when I finally said I don't care if your busy its because even though it was Christmas you were still posting ads to make money several times a day if you had the time to do that you had time to send me an update