Starting a herp shop in Tampa Bay need help

Going to toss out my experience w/ petshops.

I worked for a 'mom and pop' petstore that opened almost two years ago. I quit when I had my baby, or I would still be working there.

The owners are there every day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. They get there by 10 at the lastest each day, usually around 9, and don't leave until 10 or later each night. The shop hours are 11-8 Monday-Saturday. When you're busy, and have customers in all the time, there is no sitting down, even if you're sick, or in my case, pregnant.

Trying to deal with customers, stock shelves, place orders, clean cages, feed animals, water animals, clean more cages, deal with more customers, you're exhausted. Customers don't understand, I'm pregnant, I need to sit down for a minute, or in your case, I'm dizzy, I need to sit down for a minute. They understand they want something, and they want it then.

The petshop I worked at had reptiles, small animals, fish, and birds, as well as supplies for all of those plus dogs and cats. The owners don't take home any pay--yet. The people that work there are paid minimum wage, and work hard. I worked because I was bored, and love animals, but the other people that work there, work because they need the money. It's HARD to find people that already know anything about reptiles/fish/birds and such, and the turnover rate at such jobs is fairly high, since they're always looking for jobs that pay better.

As for opening a reptiles only shop, not THAT many people like reptiles in comparison to fish/birds/small animals/dogs/cats. They just don't. You'll have a lot of 'tourists' as we called people just looking. Plus, you have the internet as a competitor, and most people that know anything about reptiles, know they can order whatever they want, usually for cheaper.

As for supplies, you will have a very small markup you can work with on those, in order to compete with places like Petsmart and Petco. And yes, you have to compete with them, or people will come to you, find out what they need to know, and then go buy from someplace cheaper. Plus, you will have to pay more for supplies than those places do. The more you order, the more of a price break you get. One example of this is, Petsmart SOLD dog food for less than what we PAID for it, because they have warehouse storage available. I'm sure this happened in much more than just dogfood, but I know for a fact that one is true.

I'm not trying to discourage you, but just trying to help you see some of the possible pitfalls you may not have thought of. I personally would love to see a herp only shop around here...but I too would be a 'tourist' most of the time, as I don't need many supplies for the reptiles I have, and a lot of what I need, I order online, since it is cheaper....

Good luck in whatever you decide!!

There have definitely been some good points raised here.

Jeremy, your idea is good and noble, but ultimately is going to fail. I hate to be harsh, but the sad fact of the matter is it's true. Here are reasons why I think you will have problems...

Problem #1: You have a small amount of capital. While many businesses start out low on funds, if you have nothing to fall back on, you're screwed. There is ALOT of expense you'll have to take care of immediately that unfortunately, the bare minimum doesn't always cover. Most businesses that start out with basically no money end up the same way.

Problem #2: You are not exactly in an area that is lacking in herp shops. You've got three that I can name right off the top of my head in Tampa, and another 3 or 4 within an hour's drive of Tampa. And since these stores are specialty herp outlets, chances are good they will have the things that won't be seen in the average all purpose pet shop. What is going to make someone go to your store as opposed to going to say, Amazon Reptiles(just an example)? Pretty cages aren't enough.

Problem#3: Time. Are you REALLY willing to dedicate the kind of time required work this place pretty much on your own?

Problem#4: Staff. Family and friends are a great help in the beginning. Sure they are there for you at the immediate start, but what are you going to do on that busy Saturday afternoon when your buddies found something better to do and your kid's got a baseball game? That is why you need to have a PAID STAFF, even if it's only one person. If you're brother forgets to mist the chameleons one day and they all drop dead, what can you do? Fire him? Dock the pay he's not getting? That's why you need a PAID staff that knows if they do something wrong, they have to make up for it in some way. Also, you will have to take time to properly train your staff. Most people taking pet store jobs aren't usually the most knowledgeable, some are VERY knowledgeable, but most have ALOT to learn because it is not a high-pay field and those that DO have the knowledge are typically out looking for better things. You will need to take time to properly train them on their duties. I don't know your family or your friends, but the most independable people are family and friends.

Problem #5: What exactly will you get that people haven't seen before? Most more experienced/jaded herpers like myself that you say you want to attract have seen ALOT of different species, and in many cases have KEPT alot of the less common stuff. Keeping somewhat rarer stuff in stock isn't going to make me choose you over another, more convenient/competitive place. Most retail shops don't carry Red-tail Green Ratsnakes, for instance. Just because you get some in is that going to make me run to your shop instead because you have them? They are not a very common retail animal, but I'm not going to beat down your door to buy them from you. Also, most of us "in the know" so to speak, already know sources for some of the rarer animals and we also know that we can hit a site like Fauna or kingsnake to get good prices on that stuff.

The people new to the hobby who have no clue what a Red-tail Green Ratsnake is may come in and think it's cool to see something they've never seen before, but if they've never even heard of one, how are they to know it's rare?

Problem #6: This kind of leads into the last problem, but you mentioned you were only going to buy from breeders as opposed to wholesalers/importers. Okay, if that is the case, how exactly are you going to get in some of that rarer stuff that people don't see very often? Red-tail Green Ratsnakes fit this problem as well as there are VERY few people breeding them in captivity. The majority of what you are going to find of the rarer and less commonly seen species are going to be WC. So again, if you are going to deal only with breeders, how exactly are you going to get that harder to find stuff, AND at a price reasonable enough for you to purchase then resell them?

Also, it is common practice that in pet stores the seller will tell people that the animals come from their "breeders." Now, for the most part, we know these "breeders" are wholesalers like Strictly, Burgundy, and whoever. Those that have been around a while take the "it came from one of my breeders" line with a grain of salt when they hear it in a pet store, regardless of whether it's true or not. So in my opinion, buying only from breeders will not put you at a better advantage or give you more credibility when you get going.

Now, I wish you the best and I hope you find a way to make it work, but you have got some MAJOR road blocks in front of you and I believe you'll need to rehash and rethink alot of your ideas to get your plans realised.

Keep your shorts on people, I got permission from Rich to post this....

Jeremy.... As I told you in our emails, I will give you all the help you need, if you really want it (educational, not physical.... lol).... but....

I bought Tampa Snake Pit about 5 years ago, with the same aspirations you have.... I bought the place for "a song and a dance", but, I STILL had to put about $20K into the place just to set it up, which included....

RENT.... (First, last, and a month's security)....

License Fees....

Electric Deposit....

Phone Deposit....

Insurance Fees....

Store Signs....

Advertising Fees....

New Computer....

Alarm System....

ADT Fees....

Cash Register....

In-Store Construction Costs....

In-Store Supplies, ie.... Paper and Plastic Bags; Deli Cups; Garbage Cans for Crickets; Mice, Rat and Rabbit Holding Racks; etc....

Exhaust Fans....

Proper Lighting....

Tanks; Stands; Heat Lamps for Each Tank; Decorations for each Tank or enclosure; etc....

Video Camera System....

And this is just a PARTIAL list of things I can think of right off-hand!

Jeremy.... You will spend 10-12 hours a day, 7 days a week, working your butt off for AT LEAST one year!.... You CAN'T take ANY time off because you CAN'T trust a minimum-wage employee to look after your interests.... they'll rip you off blind!.... (take it from experience).... when you finally train your help to do things as you want them to, they will then quit and move on, which means you'll have to start all over again training someone else....

All this still doesn't include BURGLARY!!.... I got hit 4 times in 5 years to the tune of about $100K retail value (theft of animals, and destruction of property).... It's NOT fun!

You had also better get INCORPORATED!!.... Unless, of course, you don't mind being held PERSONALLY responsible for anything going wrong??

I know every pet shop, herp shop, and specialty pet shop in this area.... there is not ONE OF THEM who isn't struggling to keep their doors open.... why do you think I got rid of my store??.... In the last 3 months since I've gotten rid of that place, I've made more money (that I can actually keep) then the store ever did (as far as animal sales go).... For the first 4-1/2 years in the store, I averaged $625 PER DAY, and about $225K PER YEAR (gross) in my store, and it STILL WASN'T ENOUGH to keep me in the black....

Every person that has posted so far, is telling you the truth!.... Believe me, I have NO PROBLEM with another herp store in Tampa, but, it's going to end up being a lesson in futility for you....

If you still decide you want to try your venture, just let me know, and I'll answer any questions you may have....

Neil Gubitz
Tampa Snake Pit

Jeremy,

If you are still interested in starting up a retail shop after all of this send me an email at hlynn1975@charter.net. I have an excellent outline for writing a business plan that I will gladly scan in and email to you. I thought about opening a retail store myself but after doing all the work for the business plan and seeing how much money I would need just to start I decided to stick to breeding and selling out of my home. The idea of being almost half a million in debt before I even opened the doors scared me to death. You have my support and if it happens let me know and I'll sell you some animals but please be sure to do a lot of thinking before you do anything irrevokable.

Heather

ok enough with the negatives already...... just kidding..........

Somehow I dont think I am explaining myself right.

My focus really and truly isnt to make money as odd as that sounds. It is to further my hobby and educate the public as best I can....... I am banking on as many "tourist" shoppers as I can get. If I can educate even one person a week it is worth it and better yet if one iggy or other reptile isnt sold to mom and dad for there 10 year old who will ultimatley not be able to take care of it. Then I have accomplished what I want. I said Zoo/petshop and I really mean Zoo first. I will sell what I can dont take me wrong and the prices will be good. I love herps and I love talking to the public.

My mission isnt to build a herp impire but to bring the public something they dont see every day.

As far as time investment thats all I have is time. I am only 30 and have the rest of my life or at least until my Meniere's stops me but I probably wont go deaf for another 15-20 years.

I wont be the same shop that needs to sell something to everyone who walks in the door. I know now that the "starting capital" statment was not the right phrasing. I was just trying to state without explaining why I wanted help..... no I dont have millions of dollars but I have enough. My asking for help was more for the betterment of the hobby in general.

A good example I just got home from going to a retailer I sell my Jacksons to I hadnt talked to him in about a month he had sold everything he had from me and gotten a Jacksons from a wholesaler...... dehydrated, skinny, and anti-social he sells my fast this guy he has had for two weeks and hasnt sold him. So I talked to him and explained the diffrence between wholesalers herps and mine (I am the only regular reptile breeder he deals with) and there is no doubt he wont buy another cham from the wholesaler....... not all herps are as fragile as chams and some from wholesalers workout just fine but it is explaining to him when I first talked to him back a year ago that I got the chams he had out of the ten gal glass tank and into a cage. No maybe even the serious herper wont be a every time customer but if I constantly have rotating unusual stock they will come buy to see what I have and maybe buy something. But again I want to teach and show the public. explain that in six months that little iggy is going to be 10 times its size and wont fit in a ten gallon tank and probably wont want to be handled much and in a year it wont fit in any tank under 300-400 retail or something huge and custom built. Then suggest alternative for them to consider wether from me or someone else. Sell them a bearded or even a frilled. what kid wouldnt go ape-sh*^ over a frilled dragon. small handleable and none of his friends will have one.

This isnt about a store its about a very small Zoo that actualy sells what you look at.

And on that note I will say the thing I know you all will laugh at but I have faith in humanity..... I plan on havine a box/bucket/can/jar.... whatever for donation...... did I help....did you learn something.....did you see something youve never seen before..... that kind of idea..... yes I know its far fetched and I dont think it will pay the bills.

This place may well be all a fantasy but it is a fantasy I WILL make happen. A place without someone talking you into buying something. A place you can just look around and ask question and get friendly informative answers..... a place with animals that are happy and healthy and a place for herpers to go and just "chill and hang out" and if anyone wants to buy something they can.

A good friend of mine back before computer games took over opened a gaming shop in a small town. everyone say he would never survive but he is still in business because it wasnt about selling it was about the hobby. he had tables set up and games going all the time..... no money being made..... he even has games there to use free of charge. He sells new and used games also but doesnt make much once you own it there isnt any care and feeding involved. However he is still there has he ever made any money probably not. Has he made alot of friends and help further a hobby yes.

I moved to florida several years ago from New Hampshire and let me tell you what a diffrence nobody smiles nobody has time to help nobody wants to help they just want your money and you to leave. I refuse to understand that and I refuse to be that.

If I can bring a smile to someones face or find a kid a hobby and a place to come and hang out and talk maybe it will help. If I can help the small breeder sell something then I'm happy.

so all in all lets not think of it some much as a business. As just a place in florida that happens to sell reptiles but is a cool place to come and visit.


Thanks again for all the input,

Jeremy and Krysann

sitting in my living room in 90 degree heat without A/C because it makes the lazards happy

Jeremy.... My apologies.... NOW that I realize what you want to do.... you can count on me for all the help you need.... I, too, worked on that concept, of course for me, it WAS about making a living along with the education.... I HAD the TAMPA ZOO!.... I got all the stuff that no other pet shop carried.... Albino Boas, Meller's Chams, Panther Chams, Super Tiger and Tiger Retics, every Ornate Uro I could get my hands on, Skunks, Jurassic Milks, Albino Red-Eared Sliders, Caiman Lizards, Chondros and Emmys, Gators and Caimen, Snow Dragons, NG and Aussie Frilleds.... etc, etc, etc....
I KNOW what you're talking about.... I got a LOT of "tourists" with a LOT of questions.... I was happy to answer them ALL.... of course, I STILL love the kid who was looking at a small map of the world I put on each enclosure, with a heading that read.... "This animal originated here", with an arrow to the Country of Origin, who pointed to AUSTRALIA and asked me if that was PINELLAS COUNTY!!.... I laughed louder than ever!

Call me later and we'll talk....

....Neil

small zoo or small store it will still have the basically the same over head.

There are all kinds of people out there. Some offer help and mean it, some offer until you need it and then have something else to do. Before you go listening to anyone, especially certian individuals in Fla. whose name I won't mention but whose initials are neil gubitz, take time to do a search on them/him, and pay particular attention to the terry lilley thread, it shows neil's true colors through and through.

I had a shop years ago that was much like you describe wanting yours to be. I don't have it any longer. Good luck to you in your venture. And again, while a belief in the goodness of mankind in general is really nice it isn't anything you can count on, more of an unexpected bonus when it happens than a regular occurance.

Wes Pollock

Ritchie makes a very valid point.

Even if you don't need to make much money, how much can you afford to lose?

How long can you be upside down on your cash flow?

Unlike Wes, I would utilize any and all information you can get from anyone who has previously owned (or even currently owns, but I doubt your competition is going to offer much assistance) a retail reptile store, be it Wes, Neil Gubitz, or Robyn Markland. If they're offering free information and advice, soak up as much as you can.

Wes, regardless of your opinion of Neil, you have to admit he ran The Snake Pit for a long time, and he ran it successfully. No harm in Jeremy bending his ear about that.

I'm still on the skeptical side, Jeremy, and I really hope you listen to all the devil's advocates that have popped up here. (Quite a few people on that list!) Keep us posted on your progress, and know that we'll be rooting for you!

It's true he did run it for quite a while. However, while he may be a well of information, he is a proven liar and not trustworthy. I would be very leary of trusting anyone who has been proven out as neil has.

If my choice is getting advice from a knowledgable known liar or going it on my own, I would go it on my own. And, there are plenty of people who are known for being honest that would be more than willing to help out. Why take third class if first is available? That was my point.

Of course if a lesson in lying, misrepresenting snakes, and seeding distrust is what needs to be learned to run a business, well, then, neil is definately your man.

Wes Pollock