Notices |
Hello!
Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.
Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....
Please note that the information requested during registration will be used to determine your legitimacy as a participant of this site. As such, any information you provide that is determined to be false, inaccurate, misleading, or highly suspicious will result in your registration being rejected. This is designed to try to discourage as much as possible those spammers and scammers that tend to plague sites of this nature, to the detriment of all the legitimate members trying to enjoy the features this site provides for them.
Of particular importance is the REQUIREMENT that you provide your REAL full name upon registering. Sorry, but this is not like other sites where anonymity is more the rule.
Also your TRUE location is important. If the location you enter in your profile field does not match the location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected. As such, I strongly urge registrants to avoid using a VPN service to register, as they are often used by spammers and scammers, and as such will be blocked when discovered when auditing new registrations.
Sorry about all these hoops to jump through, but I am quite serious about blocking spammers and scammers at the gate on this site and am doing the very best that I can to that effect. Trust me, I would rather be doing more interesting things with my time, and wouldn't be making this effort if I didn't think it was worthwhile.
|
Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. |
03-16-2012, 01:30 PM
|
#501
|
|
Sorry, maybe 'researched' was a better word.
|
|
|
03-16-2012, 01:36 PM
|
#502
|
|
Wow! that took a long while to read. Partial success for Stu with the refund, total (present and futre customers) loss for Jerry.
|
|
|
03-16-2012, 01:59 PM
|
#503
|
|
Thanks for today's post Mitch. That was an eye opening post. I don't keep Zonatas but we Boa keepers have our share of dreadful diseases that destroy collections as well. I happen to know Jerry personally and have always considered him a straight shooter. I say this in past tense not because that has changed but he an I have not communicated for much over a decade at least. I hope this all resolves itself and that things work out for all involved.
|
|
|
03-16-2012, 02:22 PM
|
#504
|
|
The little dig you threw in there is pretty demonstrative of how passive-aggressive you can be. No worries, feelings' mutual. But for the sake of "zonata disease", and since this was really your intention to write another short story, you have a new stage here -- why not begin a new study on it? You have the means in various ways to do just that. I mean, with the Servino lab and your pull at U. Santa Cruz, why not? It just might be your biggest thing yet Mitch. How hard could it be? Since you think it may be such a pervasive, possible innate pathogen this might be a huge project for you. Maybe you're right (well, i know for a fact that you KNOW you're right) -- it sure would bring a whole new, and productive (as opposed to driveling here) means of research that could change keeping zonata for the next generation. After all, many of us have children (you and me included) and I'm sure they would want to possibly enjoy such creatures in their time. And I've seen how you've had Calvin helping you pack up all those snakes in boxes, exposing him to what we all enjoy -- so maybe this is indeed a new anvenue for you that could help us all from a science perspective.
|
|
|
03-16-2012, 02:28 PM
|
#505
|
|
Mitch-very intersting post. Thanks for all your time and thought on this one.
Jerry-After thinking things over I'm going to send all six back to you Monday unless you have any objection. I have several reasons for this. One is to show good faith but also to save on shipping twice. I also don't want these in my collection. If you are wanting to have a resonable shot at restoring these snakes then the sooner you get them back the better. After receiving half the refund I feel confident the rest will be sent as agreed.
|
|
|
03-16-2012, 02:48 PM
|
#506
|
|
Whatever you prefer Stu. And, as you should feel confident. A slight delay doesn't denote that it's not going to happen. =) Then again, you felt they were on the mend so feeling confident might be a figment of the imagination given how I've lied and dodged you in deciding whether or not I'm going to screw you. (Figured I'd throw that one in there to save the jacka$$e$ from saying it.)
|
|
|
03-16-2012, 02:55 PM
|
#507
|
|
For zonata disease to be properly studied it would require the attention of an infectious disease expert. I don't have any of the qualifications to even begin to search for a disease. Disease experts spend years getting their degrees and are highly trained specialists. My comments regarding what ZD could possibly be, are just that, one of many possibilities. I'm an evolutionary biologist, not a someone who studies infectious diseases. Furthermore, I don't even know who you'd turn to to begin this study. I just find it entertaining that so many people think it's an easy process to identify ZD.
|
|
|
03-16-2012, 03:22 PM
|
#508
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchell Mulks
For zonata disease to be properly studied it would require the attention of an infectious disease expert. I don't have any of the qualifications to even begin to search for a disease. Disease experts spend years getting their degrees and are highly trained specialists. My comments regarding what ZD could possibly be, are just that, one of many possibilities. I'm an evolutionary biologist, not a someone who studies infectious diseases. Furthermore, I don't even know who you'd turn to to begin this study. I just find it entertaining that so many people think it's an easy process to identify ZD.
|
Then how did you come to the conclusion below? Especially without seeing them in person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchell Mulks
Now, switching gears completely, I wanted to discuss Stu and his animals that are afflicted with 'zonata disease'. I realize many of you have questioned repeatedly if the affected animals could be experiencing something other than zonata disease, but no, they are not. Dehydration seems to be the causal factor that many have insinuated may be at play here.
Mitch
|
|
|
|
03-16-2012, 03:38 PM
|
#509
|
|
When I used the word 'identify' I was referring to the actual isolation of a pathogen. When someone has the chicken pox you know it's the chicken pox just by looking at a person expressing the many pustules. However, I'm sure it took a ton of time and resources to actual isolate the virus responsible for it. All I was saying is that for those of us that have worked with zonata as long as we have, it's easy to identify an animal that is showing the classic tell-tale symptoms of ZD. The actual pathogen that might be responsible for it has not been identified, nor do I think it will be an easy venture to do so. Personally, I think it's a pathogen that responsible for the sickness, but only becomes active under certain environmental conditions. That's just my opinion. It could be purely environmental, but I don't think the evidence points to that. Stu's snakes in his pictures are snakes with classic ZD. Why is that such a big deal for so many people to accept? I even said in my long post that anyone who has ever worked with zonata long enough has had the misfortune, or will have the misfortune of dealing with this. It doesn't make you a bad person if you have snakes that are infected with it. You'd only be a bad person if you sold sick snakes with the knowledge that they were sick. I don't believe Jerry did that. In fact I'm sure they looked perfectly healthy when they left his house. I even think he may never have had an outbreak in his colony. That still doesn't detract from the nearly obvious case that Stu's snakes are displaying ZD and that the stock Jerry purchased came from a breeder who's zonata colony was once hammered with ZD. It's an easy connection that can be made, the only issue was how Stu and Jerry dealt with Stu getting sick animals.
|
|
|
03-16-2012, 03:38 PM
|
#510
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focal
Then how did you come to the conclusion below? Especially without seeing them in person.
|
Because he's talking about two completely different things in these sentences. In one he's talking about the symptoms that actually show in the snake, those seem to be easy to figure out. In the other he's talking about the disease itself meaning the virus/pathogen whatever that causes these symptoms. See a snake have these symptoms is easy figuring out what causes them, why, and what to do about it is a completely different story.
Sorry I've read every page and while I know nothing about ZD I do know something about biology and how research works.
|
|
|
Join
now to reply to this thread or open new ones
for your questions & comments! FaunaClassifieds.com
is the largest online community about Reptile
& Amphibians, Snakes, Lizards and number one
classifieds service with thousands of ads to look
for. Registration is open to everyone and FREE.
Click Here to Register!
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:29 PM.
|
|