Big Apple Herp

Michael

I believe the only content of your first post that drew negative comments were these two contradictory statements

he offered to refund me the purchase price of the animal if I shipped her back. This snake was so weal and sickly that, in my opinion, would not have survived the return trip. I told him this and kept the snake.

and

I asked Big Apple to make this right as the vet felt it was congenital and that the snake was sick from the get go. There response was that since they had offered a refund before they would not be responsible for anything else. I have informed them that I would expect either a full refund or a store credit in the full purchase amount. If they do not agree I will take them to small claims court and request vet bill and necropsy cost in addition to the sales price.

If you had simply stated your experience and used the thread as a warning about the quality of the animals you received I believe you would have gotten the support you expected. Once you refused the refund...you absolved them of any liability and took it all on yourself.


Very sorry about the animal but consider it a valuable lesson. Buy animals from those that produce them....not re-sellers.

Originally Posted by Suncoast Herpetological

Michael

I believe the only content of your first post that drew negative comments were these two contradictory statements



and




If you had simply stated your experience and used the thread as a warning about the quality of the animals you received I believe you would have gotten the support you expected. Once you refused the refund...you absolved them of any liability and took it all on yourself.


Very sorry about the animal but consider it a valuable lesson. Buy animals from those that produce them....not re-sellers.

I understand and agree with you. Thank you for the valuable feedback, it is appreciated.

First, I would thank you for posting the condition of the animals that were shipped to you in lousy shape, and small for their age from a particular seller(Big APple).

But.. when you go on to state how you think you are entitled to a refund of any sort after you turned down a refund offered to you, and the snake did not die until 2 months later, you're wrong. There's no reason you would be entitled to a refund after you refused one. Saying "it's not about the money" when you explicitly stated that you are seeking money is being false. If you were only concerned about the public knowing about the condition of the animals, you would not be threatening to go to small claims court and stating to both us and Big Apple that you want a refund.

From the picture you posted, the boa looks in terrible shape. If it was just dehydration, IMHO, you could have soaked the animal, gotten it hydrated and shipped it back. Would it still have died in their care later? Maybe so. But it wouldn't be on you, you would have your money back, and this whole issue wouldn't be posted here(unless you posted the conditions of the animals you recieved, which would have been fine).

Although proof isn't required, without it, people might just wonder why two snakes died with you, even with the picture of ONE snake who arrived dehydrated. Technically, a dehydrated and small animal can be rehydrated, and fed so it grows(if it's eating), and surviving for two months could mean it wasn't a cogenital condition or a shipping issue. Personally I do believe you in that there was some issue with the snake, but that's simply opinion, because there isn't any proof.

The vet told you cogenital defect, with no proof whatsoever about the snake having any issues with it's colon or anything else. He saw a snake that was in lousy shape, but he didn't do any testing on it to prove what was wrong? Correct? So he pulled this defect opinion out, which is basically a educated guess at this point. Is he a really experianced herp vet? Has he seen many cases of this defect? Or did he say in a offhand manner "Hey, it could be a birth defect."

Short version of all the rambling... you were right to post the condition of the snakes you were sold. You are wrong to post that you are entitled to any sort of refund 2 months after you refused to take a full refund.

Sorry that you had to deal with the poor little snake too. I'm sure that wasn't easy.

Just to kinda add to this - about 2 years ago I wont a contest on a forum. The ocntest was sponsored by BA offering a Albino Boa as the prize.
Well on teh day it was to be shipped i recived an e-mail delaying it claiming that my state requires vet bills of health on all animals prior to being shipped. I was informed that the shipping would be delayed nearly a week while they waited on a vet to check the animal an issue a clean bill of health. The BOH was basiclly the vets name, an a few boxes checked saying the animal outwardly looked healthy.
The following week I finally was shipped my lil boa. It appeared in good health an despite having the vet bill of health i went ahead an quarintined the animal.
It was a good thing I did because within 2 weeks the animal started star gazing, soon it couldn't tell which way was up or down. After being taken to my vet it was diagnosed with possibly having IBD - we didn't run the blood tests due to cost but all the symptoms were there.

I contacted the owner of the forum that I won the boa on an was informed despite sending pics an video that i was full of it an that there was no way BA would ship an animal like that an that there was no way they would have IBD in their animals.... The next day I was banned off the forum.

Just seeing this thread reminded me of that lil boa, I know I wont buy from them anything other then supplies.

An I know someone will ask why I did not contact them - because my deal with not with them the deal was between them an the owner of the forum since it was between them with the sponsorship.
Just thought I would mention it.

Celeste Foster

See how quick they defended/Passed the Dead snake off on the "Boa Manager".....Not a dead Snake but Two! We should chastize the "Boa Manager......How many of those snakes did he send out? They treat their
animals like all those dusty Boxes of stuff they send you. Bet we could wright our names all over that warehouse. Oh yeah he was not mistaken .....those most likely were "08"s' .......It's How they do it at the Apple.....

Originally Posted by Wolfy-hound

First, I would thank you for posting the condition of the animals that were shipped to you in lousy shape, and small for their age from a particular seller(Big APple).

But.. when you go on to state how you think you are entitled to a refund of any sort after you turned down a refund offered to you, and the snake did not die until 2 months later, you're wrong. There's no reason you would be entitled to a refund after you refused one. Saying "it's not about the money" when you explicitly stated that you are seeking money is being false. If you were only concerned about the public knowing about the condition of the animals, you would not be threatening to go to small claims court and stating to both us and Big Apple that you want a refund.

From the picture you posted, the boa looks in terrible shape. If it was just dehydration, IMHO, you could have soaked the animal, gotten it hydrated and shipped it back. Would it still have died in their care later? Maybe so. But it wouldn't be on you, you would have your money back, and this whole issue wouldn't be posted here(unless you posted the conditions of the animals you recieved, which would have been fine).

Although proof isn't required, without it, people might just wonder why two snakes died with you, even with the picture of ONE snake who arrived dehydrated. Technically, a dehydrated and small animal can be rehydrated, and fed so it grows(if it's eating), and surviving for two months could mean it wasn't a cogenital condition or a shipping issue. Personally I do believe you in that there was some issue with the snake, but that's simply opinion, because there isn't any proof.

The vet told you cogenital defect, with no proof whatsoever about the snake having any issues with it's colon or anything else. He saw a snake that was in lousy shape, but he didn't do any testing on it to prove what was wrong? Correct? So he pulled this defect opinion out, which is basically a educated guess at this point. Is he a really experianced herp vet? Has he seen many cases of this defect? Or did he say in a offhand manner "Hey, it could be a birth defect."

Short version of all the rambling... you were right to post the condition of the snakes you were sold. You are wrong to post that you are entitled to any sort of refund 2 months after you refused to take a full refund.

Sorry that you had to deal with the poor little snake too. I'm sure that wasn't easy.

I will once again agree that I am not entitled to the refund. I was not originally asking for a refund from them but after their complete lack of concern over this I got angry and asked for one. That was certainly a mistake on my part that was driven by anger over their response to me.

The animal was not just dehydrated. I have soaked and soaked and soaked this animal. The vet administered subcutaneous hydration. All of this was to no effect. The animal was not metabolizing anything. It ate on a regular basis but continued to look lousy, it did not thrive.

The vet made his comments after looking at the x ray he took. He stated that the food it was eating was not being processed and was rotting in her system. He felt that her constantly lying on a heat source pointed to her lack of metabolism.

Please be aware of the type of animal that Big Apple shipped to me. It really was in no condition to be sold.

So...did you ever get copies of the medical records?

I still think the OP deserves a little more commendation for caring about the snake's well being over money. What did he have to gain? If the snake lived he would have spent far more than a customer who received a snake with no health issues. Also, if he can prove it, he also found out that the snake was doomed to death from the get go, which provides evidence against BAH that wasn't in play before. I do not think BAH is 'obligated' to do anything about this, but I still think it would be the right thing to do. Ask yourselves, is it right of the company to make the customer choose between no refund, or torturing the animal by putting it through the stress of shipping in awful condition? I don't think that's right, and dealings like this should not be promoted. No wonder so many people are against the pet trade. Due to this situation, the snake is not receiving the proper treatment; the customer cannot choose what's best for the snake and get a refund at the same time, something for the customer to have on their conscience if they choose the money. These are living animals. I see the OP's concern.

I only buy supplies from BA, I have never purchased a live animal from them, but I have heard from numerous friends in the past not to do so. When they offer A+ "pastel" hypos, they should be that, especially at the price they sell them at. They will never get my live animal business.

so it's now 11/4/10 and i found this & he never updated with proof???