Jay Sommers/super show/USFW/axolotl

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Originally Posted by WebSlave

i have to admit that I am not part of the cell phone generation, so excuse me if these questions just sound dumb to all of you who are.

How long ago did these messages take place?

Is it typical for people to keep all of their phone/text messages for several years?

If it is not typical, then why were those particular messages retained?

Honestly, I thought people changed cell phones fairly often and even having one several years old was kind of unusual. Go figure.....

Originally Posted by Jay Sommers Reptiles

Actually the first date is in 2013.

So much for my ASSumption they would have been posted chronologically. Although, the 5-week difference doesn't appear to be particularly noteworthy, or really change anything.

I will address this.

if you did your research more. Google better you would learn that I dropped shipped species from wholesalers when I was 18-21. So, the alligators were not in my possession but at a wholesalers.

Originally Posted by Fangthane

The first date shown is 1/3/14. If you were in possession of, and/or selling axolotls in a place where they're prohibited, it's definitely a strike against you. The message stream does appear to make a good case for the idea that that's exactly what was going on. Not good.

That being said, I can't help pointing out the sheer hypocrisy of mike matson being the one to lay down that card - not only because it shows that he also had no problem possessing something he shouldn't. In one of the numerous accounts he created with a false name to bypass his ban, he openly admits to possessing/selling animals that were also not legally owned in his own location, which, as of 2010, he claimed was still Washington State.



Dated 9/19/2010

Originally Posted by jrsexotics

if you did your research more. Google better you would learn that I dropped shipped species from wholesalers when I was 18-21. So, the alligators were not in my possession but at a wholesalers.

Possible, but your glaring lack of credibility makes it extremely debatable. However, it does nothing to negate the admissions you made, which I quoted.

No mention of wholesalers here:

Originally Posted by callanreptiles

I've have 8ft water monitors,alligators. crocs and over 14 venomous snakes over the years along with hundreds of other animals.

Alligators, crocodiles and many venomous snakes are no-nos in Wa. No matter how one looks at it, you're a liar. Probably time to don your cap and go back into the corner.

Jay, just out of curiosity, when exactly did you leave KS for California?

I feel that all I see on the BOI is threads pertaining to one of you three. It's like a political smear campaign going on.

With that being said, it's not a good thing to break the law pertaining to restricted species. Regardless on what side of the transaction you are on, one should not take part. Our hobby has been facing threat for years and transactions like these do not help our case.

Ignorance can not be claimed as a reason for accepting an illegal species, especially if you were actively "drop shipping" you would be aware of the species you could not keep. (Mike)

Being an active member in the reptile community, you should have also known the restrictions and it's evident you did by making the statement to not get caught. Fish and Wilflife is the reason you have permits for the species you are allowed to keep, they are the reason certain species are allowed to get imported. Regardless of your feelings of their agents, they benefit you in that aspect. That should warrant a respect for them rather then to speak about them in a way. That also does not look good for our hobby. (Jay)

In my opinion everyone involved in these recent chest puffing, ego filled threads needs to step back for a minute and evaluate yourselves. It's been proven that neither of the 3 (Barry, Jay, Mike) have ever been truly devoid of an issue. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone acts out of character at some point, but it's up to those to acknowledge and correct these mistakes.

Finally, my consensus is that you should all figure out what needs to be done to correct your mistakes and be role models in the hobby. Help advance the reptile hobby and be outstanding members of the community. While it does take time to repair reputation and build trust, people are willing to forgive if the effort is put in.

Just my 2 cents...

I'm not sure that it proves anything, but when I ordered my axolotl from Jay, it was not shipped from California. I can't remember where exactly. Maybe Kansas or someplace in the midwest. But it definitely wasn't from California. This would have been 1-2 years ago now.

Originally Posted by LauraB

Jay, just out of curiosity, when exactly did you leave KS for California?

My facility is in Kansas still. That's where the bulk of my animals are.

I had a restricted species permit to bring axolotls into California and I even sold some to a few universities and to the sd zoo where I am an authorized vendor. Or was at the time. Furthermore I was involved in two seperated issues I can not discuss here and I have corroborating emails I can not post because it's communication between me and California fish and game agent and a usfw sector director in Sacramento.

In fact I shipped axolotls into California a few times legally.

Originally Posted by JayBoa1372

I feel that all I see on the BOI is threads pertaining to one of you three. It's like a political smear campaign going on.

With that being said, it's not a good thing to break the law pertaining to restricted species. Regardless on what side of the transaction you are on, one should not take part. Our hobby has been facing threat for years and transactions like these do not help our case.

Ignorance can not be claimed as a reason for accepting an illegal species, especially if you were actively "drop shipping" you would be aware of the species you could not keep. (Mike)

Being an active member in the reptile community, you should have also known the restrictions and it's evident you did by making the statement to not get caught. Fish and Wilflife is the reason you have permits for the species you are allowed to keep, they are the reason certain species are allowed to get imported. Regardless of your feelings of their agents, they benefit you in that aspect. That should warrant a respect for them rather then to speak about them in a way. That also does not look good for our hobby. (Jay)

In my opinion everyone involved in these recent chest puffing, ego filled threads needs to step back for a minute and evaluate yourselves. It's been proven that neither of the 3 (Barry, Jay, Mike) have ever been truly devoid of an issue. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone acts out of character at some point, but it's up to those to acknowledge and correct these mistakes.

Finally, my consensus is that you should all figure out what needs to be done to correct your mistakes and be role models in the hobby. Help advance the reptile hobby and be outstanding members of the community. While it does take time to repair reputation and build trust, people are willing to forgive if the effort is put in.

Just my 2 cents...

You realize what you are telling me is I don't have the right to speak as I wish in a private communication? How does my private conversation affect the reptile hobby in any way.it doesn't until someone posts it online. It has zero relevance to anything. Furthermore it was not directed at any specific agent it was a vague off color joke. I mean it was clearly a joke. And also I am quite sure there have been a few usfw agents talk about me just as badly.
It's not like I made a video about usfw agents and posted it on my facebook page.
I guess at this point I should just not open my mouth at all in private communications with people for fear of it being used against me at a later date??

Originally Posted by Kristi23

I'm not sure that it proves anything, but when I ordered my axolotl from Jay, it was not shipped from California. I can't remember where exactly. Maybe Kansas or someplace in the midwest. But it definitely wasn't from California. This would have been 1-2 years ago now.

It's hard to say. I had a facility in Arizona for over a year. However arizona passed a law banning transgenic animals so I had to move those back to Kansas City metro.