Albino Ball Python Died!!

Hey Ritchie,

Bradley was the one doing the physical necropsy, the Vet (if there was one that submitted it for study) would be in the blocked out areas. The reference usually has the owner/breed or if owner unk the vet submitting/breed.

Here is an example retyped of the form of many I have

Name of Path Service or on this side
Address of Path Serice


Date:

Doctor Submitting: Miller, Suncoast Vet Clinic
Biopsy samples: 2 sections, or 2 tissures, or one preserved speciman)
Source/history (deceased suddenly, age 9 month or history of coccidia, malnoursihed, etc)

Reference: Smith, beaded dragon

Diagnoses: gout

Body of Report:

Comments:

Pathologist:
Name of Dr doing necropsy
Address
Phone

This is taken from the form of the majority of over 80 reports I have (NOT MINE) Some are layed out slightly different, but all have the same basic info

Sorry for your loss Adam, I hope that my posting can help people to understand this disease better. I have been a LVT for 10 years(licensed veterinary technician)and Ive kept reptiles since I was knee high to a grasshopper. But I just recently had the wonderful opportunity in assisting with a necropsy on a gharial @ UGA. The gharial had gout and I learned so much by being able to physically see the diseased tissues/organs.
An animal with gout may not show any signs and can live a long life with it until environmental factors come into play.This is especially true in reptiles. This is because the liver breaks down purines (or basically uric acid) with the assistance of amino acids they receive from their diet. Extra "uric acid" is then filtered through the kidneys and then excreted. (urates) There is also a form of "free flowing" uric acid in the blood or serum of the animal. If the levels of uric acid are too high in the blood stream they are deposited elsewhere and form crystals. These crystals can form in the joints of any extremities, liver, kidneys and other organs. Thus causing the liver to shut down, the kidneys to shut down, severe (painful arthritis) and eventually death from kidney and liver failure. Now with reptiles these circumstances can be escalated by longterm exposure to cold temps, dehydration (lack of fluid=lack of kidney function) and improper diet. These factors affect uric acid excretion. Improper diets are main causes in iguanas (people who offer animal proteins rather than herbivorous diets can potentially cause gout due to the varied amino acid content) And with snakes, chronic cold temps and dehydration can escalate the disease process. Anyways, Hope this helps, take care..
Shannon Richards
&
Christian Wright

The following is quoted from an earlier post by Adam in this thread.

"The feed card also showed feedings once a month. This snake died as well within two months of him getting it and based on weight I would say it was neglected to some extent. If it was only fed once a month to you really think it always had fresh water?"

Here is a quote from Rusty Davis:

"But there was one feeding on 10/07/01, 10/24/01, 11/16/01, 12/13/01, 1/03/02, 1/15/02, 1/21/02, 1/31/02, 2/11/02, 3/11/02, 3/22/02, 3/27/02, 4/10/02, 5/07/02, 5/19/02 these were the feeding on the card at purchase. Thats 15 feedings in 8 months."

Near as i can figure, 15 feedings in 8 months tallies to a feeding every 16 dayson average, not once a month. I am not an expert on Ball Pythons, my area is colubrids, but I have had a few over the years. I don't think that anyone who does keep them would claim that bi-monthly feeding constituted abuse as Adam infers.

A breeder who produces large numbers of animals for resale does not generally keep all of his saleable animals on a heavy feeding schedule. They are generally fed at a rate that would ensure moderate growth and be more than sufficient to keep the animal healthy. Just because it is possible to stuff an animal to promote unusually fast growth does not mean that everyone subscribes to a schedule of that sort.

Since the infamous feed card was one of the only two peices of hard evidence that Adam chose to share with us, (even though it had nothing at all to do with his transaction) I guess we are now down to nothing but the highly questionable vet report.

Adam
with regards to the PM you sent me.

You said you would answer any questions I have....but first I have to contact those people you pointed me to in regards to NERD.

that was your Deal.

Here is my counter Deal.

Post the full necropsy report (no blocking out the real owners name) and I will contact anyone you want me to contact. Then I will come here to verify or dispute what you said.

Okay, so let's us get this in writing for you and I and the Webslave to agree on. If I post the full report, then you will call the people I tell you to, big name people. And verify that in fact I am correct in what I'm saying. You also agree that you will not tell anybody on here who told you the information? You would of course have to promise these people this and that you won't tell Kevin either as many have pending deals with them and stand to loose money.

You also agree that you will state what you find out in the BOI and that will be allowed by you as a person representing the board as a fact even without the names of the people suppling the information.

I'm cool with that,
Adam Block

Okay we are on the bargaining table.

First you gotta understand.
I speak for myself and no one.
I do not speak as a representative of this site.
I stand on my own in everything I do.
I stand on what I think is right.
I am not standing for anyone or anysite.

Second, before we go further.
You gotta get me a total body count of How many animals have supposedly died after being bought from Nerd.

Meaning How many animals you can prove have died....NOT a percentage.

Let me start the list.
Two Pastel ball pythons

Second, before we go further.
You gotta get me a total body count of How many animals have supposedly died after being bought from Nerd.

Meaning How many animals you can prove have died....NOT a percentage.

One BIG problem with this bargain. How in the heall are you going to prove that whatever numbers of animals that died are the fault of NERD? Adam can't even prove that it is NERD's fault that his animal died. Yes, he has a necropsy report, but it is lacking in the key details (HOW IT GOT GOUT IN THE FIRST PLACE). No offense Adam, but it still could have been your fault though no errors on you ability as a herper, but simply that the animal didn't like the cage you had it in. Therefore, didn't drink and developed gout. Heck it could have been as simple as the water bowl was a different color and it scared it. You or anyone on this board can't prove otherwise. So how on earth are you going to PROVE that any of the reported animals that may have died from NERD are NERD's fault? Even Ritchie can't prove that by calling all the previous dead snake owners. Without any GENETICS report to link the cause of death to an inferior lineage, you are grasping at straws that don't mean jack.

If you really want to see my point, lets use Ben Siegle's name in place of NERDS. (sorry Ben) How many animals daily does he sell? How many of that number die for any multitude of reasons? Now by your logic it is Ben's fault that they are dead. So we all should go after Ben and blame poor genetics as the cause even though we can't prove it. Hey Ben, J.Puker sold me an infected puking snake that in turn infected an animal I got from you. Your animals are genetically weak because they couldn't resist the j.puker factor and I want my money back 6 months after the sale. Starting to see how this looks Adam.


After 2 months in your care it is your fault and responsibility like it or not.

Let me repeat that so you don't miss it.

AFTER 2 MONTHS IN YOUR CARE, IT IS YOUR FAULT THE ANIMAL DIED, NOT NERD'S.

I know it's a hard lump to swallow, but that's how almost everyone on this board sees it. You are well beyond the dates of any refund or replacement. Sorry dude, but that's that.

Proof has nothing to do with it here. In this case we're talking aobut shear numbers. One or two people and it could be their care. You start getting a body count of over a dozen and it's hard to pawn off on the care of all these buyers.

Ritchie, this works for me so far. But, I want to hear from the webslave the post from you will be allowed even though it will contain third party info and no names. Nobody will talk about NERD on the record.

If you're cool with that call me and I'll give you all the info you need.

Adam Block

It's OK with me, but will everyone else go along with this? If Ritchie Luna states that he has gotten information from sources that he cannot reveal will that be acceptable to everyone else?

I guess Adam is calling on a vote of confidence for Ritchie here.

Hey I want a body count before proceeding any further.
I will do the necessary detective work....I will ask the necessarry questions.
I want a body count. not over half a dozen.
because as we have seen time and again.
over half a dozen can mean seven or it can mean 10,000 I will not fall for it again.

Write it in here and tell me of all the people you contacted....what is the total body count you got.

Then we can proceed no phone calls Adam.
It will turn into a big he said she said.

you said yourself. write it in here.