horny toad lizard for sale

If you are talking about Phrynosoma, I know all about Phrynosoma and their status. I'm an expert in Phrynosoma, and zoos have consulted me in regard to their care. I have a 40 page manual on them, which earned me an invitation to present to IHS. I study them in the wild.

They are not on the federal endangered list, so as such, are not really considered "endangered" as of yet. They are considered a "species of concern" or "threatened species" in many states, which may treat them similarly to endangered and require permits, but it's not the same as "federally endangered".

There are 14 recognized species currently ( 17 according to some herpetologists ), and what level of protection they are offered, if any, depends on the individual state and the species concerned. Not all are protected in all places, and some are not protected at all, unfortunately, but that is the accurate truth.

There are 3 species native to Texas, and only 2 are protected.

So are you selling the non protected variety? I thought that people in Texas had to have a permit to keep horny toads. Do you sell harvester ants on a regular basis or are they easy to breed? I ask because I am in education and have friends that would love to keep a horny toad, but know that it is difficult to keep them healthy in captivity.

Oh, I am sorry! i thought you were the seller!

Well, please do, if you will, respond to the protected staus in Texas. Can any horny toad be kept as a pet in Texas without a license?

Originally Posted by rosebud945

So are you selling the non protected variety? I thought that people in Texas had to have a permit to keep horny toads. Do you sell harvester ants on a regular basis or are they easy to breed? I ask because I am in education and have friends that would love to keep a horny toad, but know that it is difficult to keep them healthy in captivity.

No, I absolutely never sell any Horned Lizards. I am a reptile rescuer and if I had occasion to need to re-home one or provide sanctuary, I would only transfer one to the hands of someone I knew was well experienced with reptiles and had only non-commercial desires for it's future. I am strictly against the indiscriminate and public sale or distribution of Horned Lizards, whether regulated or unregulated species.

People in Texas do not have to have a permit to keep "any" Horned Lizards. P. modestum is native to west Texas, and unregulated in Texas. Many other species originate from other states where they are unregulated, such as P. platyrhinos and P. solare originating from Az. or Nv. for example. Horned Lizards are protected in some other states however, such as Ca. and NM to a certain degree, although in NM their legislation is weak and seems to be merely lip service to protection.

I sell harvester ants for feeders or ant farms full time thru the year, except for winter time when they are underground and almost impossible to get.

I have 22 years experience with reptiles, and I don't recommend Horned Lizards for anyone but the most experienced herp keepers. They are not well suited to captivity and they typically do not live long without the most experienced care and proper resources. Dr. Richard Montanucci has stated in one of his papers on the subject, that Horned Lizards are among the most difficult species to keep in captivity due to their fragility, being prone to illness, and dietary requirements, among other things. I concur.

I recently consulted with a Herp Society in Seattle which came across a Pygmy Short Horned Lizard. Despite my attempts to get them to surrender it to someone else, they thought they knew better and attempted to keep it over my objection. They had "lizard experts" which I explained is not the same as a "Horned Lizard expert". It was dead within 3 weeks. I see this same story year in and year out, and still people do not listen.

Originally Posted by rosebud945

Oh, I am sorry! i thought you were the seller!

Well, please do, if you will, respond to the protected staus in Texas. Can any horny toad be kept as a pet in Texas without a license?

No, not "any". As I stated before, there are conservatively 14 recognized species. Some can be kept, some cannot. It depends on where it comes from and what the species is. If it comes from Texas, unless it is a P. modestum, then it is regulated. So, unless you know your Horny Toads pretty well, then it's best to not keep anything you find in Texas.

Some species are not protected in Texas, and possession may not be regulated in Texas, but they may be protected where ever they originated. This is often the case with non-native occuring species. The P. coronatum from California for example; it is not native to Texas, and so therefore is not protected in name in Texas. It is protected in Ca. however, and collection from Ca. and it's transportation across state lines without permit would be a violation of wildlife dept. regulation.

There are some species, such as for example the platyrhinos, which are unfortunately available on the pet trade market and are collected legally from Nv. Many people across the US and in Europe keep this species. They are legal almost everywhere, even if collection from the wild for commercial purposes turns my stomach.

I agree 100% with you that they are better left in the wild, especially after reading your thoughts here. I feel that way about other lizard species, and as a rehabber of wildlife, I feel that way about all indigenous birds and mammals.

I'm affraid that this seller is selling the idea that horny toads can be fed crix. Thank you for all of the wonderful info and the terrific work that you are doing!

In addition to working with reptiles, we also have have small mammals and birds turned over to us frequently. We are about to release a young cotton-tail this week that was saved from a house cat attack.

I'm glad you brought up the point about the crickets.

Yes, I have never seen one example yet of a seller of Horned Lizards, who knew about their proper care. This goes for every classified ad I have ever seen on numerous websites. All respectable authorities I know in the Phrynosoma "community", who distribute them at all, are adopters. Some may have lower standards for who they distribute them too than I would, but they do not advertise for sale to the general public, and generally they only ask for expenses, not a for profit sale.

90+% of these lizards that are offered in the pet trade are wild caught. Every seller of them I have ever seen or heard of, misrepresents their true dietary requirements, whether intentional or through ignorance. Of course, many of them cannot be truthful and disclose that Horned Lizards mainly eat a certain genus of ants in the wild, otherwise they risk losing a sale. Ordering harvester ants and feeding a Horned Lizard can be more expensive than feeding the dog. Horned Lizard peddlers don't want people to know that, therefore they tell the public, they will be "fine on crickets". It is a lie. Phrynosoma are not adapted to eat crickets as a primary diet. They are too high in fats and sugars ( polysaccharide from chitin breakdown ). The harvester ants provide free fatty acids from the plant matter they harvest, which is a lean and easily metabolized fuel for the Horned Lizard.

There... is a discussion forum. Quite a few of them in fact; you don't have to piggyback on an ad from early 2004.

Well aware of that, thank you. Take your crusade for internet protocol elsewhere. You're not adding anything of use.

Horned Lizards are rarely traded, rarely discussed, and few sites have forums dedicated to them; therefore, I feel it is appropriate to field a question or two here this thread. If you don't like what's on, change the channel, but keep it to yourself. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Seamus Haley

There... is a discussion forum. Quite a few of them in fact; you don't have to piggyback on an ad from early 2004.

Party pooper.