One More Reason to Test for Adenovirus

Hey Wiskersmom,

I will email both of the ones doing the reserach and see if money can be donated to find some answers for adeno. I am unsure if we can its just an idea. I know Lou Ann Miller told me that money was really lacking for reaserch and she is doing the test for me so I will ask her if she knows how we can help. If my like test negative I have no problem donating a percentage of the selling price to reserch (if my line is infected I will not be breeding and just keeping them as pets).

I just want to do something to help the dragons and finger pointing is not doing anything. In all the post I have read about adeno in the last year no one is saying anything about getting money for reserach. In my opinion we need answers and the only way we can get ones is if test are conducted and research is done.

Its time to stop laying balme, put aside our differences and get some answers. This will be a lot eaiser if we can all work together. Travis

Would anyone with a website donate some space to start something constructive and heading forward with this? Could we find out, if we can raise funds, if we could possibly have a long term study done and exactly how much it would cost? Anyone willing to head this up? Lets band together and start something that people have a place to go that is not biased. That could present the lastest data, let people share their experiences,and raise funds for future studies. Anyone willing to take this on or I feel as soon as this thread dies down, everyone will just go back to waiting to see what happens. Any ideals?

Jean, Tere is working on the website idea right now.

Originally Posted by Saladragon

I also have plans of turning our website into an educational tool for this virus. The change of the website will be difficult, simply because I don't want to scare anyone. So, if anyone has any ideas on how to go about making that change without causing mass hysteria, please feel free to offer your ideas.

Originally Posted by Cat_72

Jean, Tere is working on the website idea right now.

Great,

Tere, If you are willing to take this on, I would be more than happy to help in any way I can.

Originally Posted by Cat_72

Jean, Tere is working on the website idea right now.

Cathy and Jean-

Yes, I had planned on doing something, but still haven't figured out what yet. Not only do I not want to scare people so badly that they won't read any information, my main computer guy (my husband) isn't due back for another couple of weeks. I did make a couple of changes, but it was more to inform anyone I wasn't able to hunt down, in hopes that they would visit our website eventually...and to answer the question that I'm being asked over and over again, which is where to do go to get our animals tested.

Just a couple of general ideas I had were to post on our dragon picture page which dragons were positive, and which were negative...so people could see that they don't have to look sick to be sick. That's already been done.

Another thing I had planned on doing is posting links for all the different articles, research, whatever other information (to include information I don't personally agree with) all in one place so people would be able to do their own research.

I had also planned on putting somewhere what our experiences are with this virus. I know it sounds silly, but so far, everyone's experiences have been different. I had planned on putting up pictures that show what this virus can do, most likely one like what's posted above, so people can see with their own eyes. Reading what it does is one thing...seeing it is entirely different alltogether. And no, I wouldn't be posting pictures of the deceased babies.

I know these are both very simple things, but I can't help but think it would help in some small way. And like I said, I'm more than happy to take suggestions how to do this. I've never taken on something like this, but if it would help, I'm more than willing.

[quote=Saladragon

Another thing I had planned on doing is posting links for all the different articles, research, whatever other information (to include information I don't personally agree with) all in one place so people would be able to do their own research. [/QUOTE]


I think that is a great starting point, to present all the data and to stay open minded that not one person has all the answers.That all data must be reviewed equally and fairly whether we agree or not.

Topics of my post are not meant to be directed at anyone in particular, and definately not toward those trying to stop the advancement of this virus.

Honesty………seems to be a word that’s in high demand and short supply these days. We realize that rarely anyone in our reptile community trusts each other anymore, don’t we? Yet, it seems almost expected that the new comers and buyers of these dragons, should trust the breeders without hesitation. And in the meantime, we don’t even trust each other. Ironic.

I too feel that research and testing are extremely important. I can understand money, profit margin, unexpected costs and the need to pay bills. However, I also understand the impact this is having on new owners or those that do not frequent our forums, not to mention the unsuspecting breeders that have been profoundly effected. Their costs associated with buying their dragon, then the upward cost of vet care before they barely have the time to recover from relocation stress due to the panic, not knowing creates. I’m all for donations for research, but I’m not convinced that the cost of this will not be misconstrued by the greedy and the innocent taken advantage of. Again, we’re back at the trust and honesty issue. However, I will gladly donate a fee monthly toward the research for information, as long it is credible.

I wish for what we all wish for, health and good genetics. Who did what, where, when and why is important, yes, but not as important as controlling what has been unleashed in this community. The here and now………debating the options is wasting time, and costing lives.

What stands before us is an upset community that is afraid of those that have made their names in this circle. They seek the honesty and integrity of those they are supposed to respect. They expect to be supported in their efforts to raise and keep a healthy beautiful dragon from your stock. They’re met with excuses, accusations and assumptions based on the thought that “it can’t be the breeders fault”. In this….I somewhat agree. New keepers often make mistakes, have improper equipment, and the wrong information. However, the new owner expected to receive a perfectly healthy dragon on arrival, which, following relocation, should pick back up to normal. To my understanding, an adeno + dragon can’t withstand these imperfections to the same capability of a healthy dragon.

The guarantees that breeders offer are almost useless. So many things can be excused away. What if you can’t get them to contact you when you have a problem? After all, breeders have lives too. But that doesn’t help your time frame. It takes time to send samples for adeno testing, and that time frame usually isn’t in that guarantee.

I’ve seen many breeders argue the fact that the tests are costly. Their stock is massive and it is not a cost effective solution for them. There have been recommendations that the breeders add testing costs onto the sale of the dragon. Yet the community is losing faith and trust in them now. I believe you can refer to the BOI to clarify.

Only one breeder to my knowledge, and please correct me if I’m wrong, went back and purchased back the positive hatchlings that came from their clutches. I’m certain the cost far surpassed the profit made. And I must say, that is impressive to me. Honor, trust, and the genuine thought of the species is remarkable. This is what we trust. Why? Because the integrity to say “something went wrong” was there. It was researched and identified and dealt with to the best of their ability. It was brought to public attention to make others aware that this problem exists and to help them prepare for what was to come. This information provided so much to help others already. Those that have adeno+ dragons are searching for ways to promote their health and extend their lives without the thought of breeding to contaminate another generation. Thank You for that.

I don't think anyone has the knowledge to say this is over rated or over exaggerated. We simply don't have that information. But whether it is or isn't is NOT the point. The point is........preservation of a healthy species.

The buyers want answers, ones they can understand. How many of you will reimburse that adeno positive baby, the shipping, the testing costs, the vet bills to that new owner, regardless of your own testing beliefs or opinions? At that time, will you test the adults that produced the clutch and post their results?

Simple questions. Who can give simple answers?

Gina-

After reading your incredibly well thought out post, I had to clarify something. I'm hoping I just read it wrong.

I will be more than happy to donate to research, but I DO NOT want to be in any way associated with those research funds...other than tell me where to send it. I really, really hope I misunderstood or misread what you wrote.

Sorry if I wasn't clear Tere. I definately want to do my part, whether that means donate money, what ever information I might have, or anything else can be brought to my attention. I simply do not want to see the new owners pushed for more money when it's been proven that some have not been quite so honest.

I'm lucky, I'm not affected by this virus. For those of you that are, and have come forward to offer your information and to try to guide the rest of us......I commend you, and respect you.

Gina,

You said you were not affected by the adeno. Does this mean you tested your trans and its clean? I am not trying to be a smart @## I am just woundering. All I have heard is that all trans are infected and I have not spoken to anyone with a trans that was clean so I was just woundering. I am getting my trans and a bunch of others tested next week and was just curious. Travis