The Humane Society soled me out!

Hopefully he makes a full recovery and I'm glad the horse is somewhere it will be treated well.

Sorry about the pic quality in this pic im standing in the middle of the neighbors yard(invited) most of the junk you see in front of that shack is in the neighbors yard not the horse owners. unforchanetly it doesnt belong to him. once you realize that there's a hore living in there it hared to walk away, well for me it was but lately Ive been surprised at how many would just turn the other way.

I am somewhere in the middle on this. I agree that the condition of the horse was terrible. Hopefully he will recover, and charges should be levied against the owners. I also feel very strongly about the trespassing issue. I live in a rural agricultural area and we look way down on interlopers. My property is mine and it is my sanctuary. DO NOT violate it. If someone does, they should be prepared to face the consequences. This matter is tough to call. If I had to be a judge, 10 days for the trespass, 10 years for the maltreatment of the horse!

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

I read the links and I respectfully disagree with the above part of Cat's post.

Perhaps I need to clarify what I meant there...by the "coming with the territory", I meant that I've been in the shoes of someone who has animal owners REALLY pissed off at me for turning them in for neglect/cruelty....and thinking that the worst thing that they could have you charged with was trespassing. Nothing more. I'm not certain what part of that you were disagreeing with, or if you interpreted what I said differently than I meant it?

And David...I believe you and I have had this discussion before about living in a "rural" area (it may not have been you, if not forgive me)....and I was from a MUCH more rural area than you. I agree wholeheartedly that trespassing is frowned upon in these parts, (though I must say your use of the word "interlopers" kind of creeped me out, lol...it reminds me some old horror movie)and would not want just anyone wandering around my property.....one thing that is more frowned upon is the cruel starvation of an animal.

I'm having a hard time explaining what I'm trying to say....but though I feel a person's privacy needs to be respected, I think that line becomes blurred when something illegal/cruel is known to be going on.

[quote=Cat_72]Perhaps I need to clarify what I meant there...by the "coming with the territory", I meant that I've been in the shoes of someone who has animal owners REALLY pissed off at me for turning them in for neglect/cruelty....and thinking that the worst thing that they could have you charged with was trespassing. Nothing more. I'm not certain what part of that you were disagreeing with, or if you interpreted what I said differently than I meant it?

And David...I believe you and I have had this discussion before about living in a "rural" area (it may not have been you, if not forgive me)....and I was from a MUCH more rural area than you. I agree wholeheartedly that trespassing is frowned upon in these parts, (though I must say your use of the word "interlopers" kind of creeped me out, lol...it reminds me some old horror movie)and would not want just anyone wandering around my property.....one thing that is more frowned upon is the cruel starvation of an animal.

I'm having a hard time explaining what I'm trying to say....but though I feel a person's privacy needs to be respected, I think that line becomes blurred when something illegal/cruel is known to be going on. [/QUOTE

Cat, I don't think that we have had that discussion. (don't worry, I would forgive you for a lot worse than that!) I grew up in Miami Fl., where there was no privacy, but have come to expect more in this area. I live in backwoods appalachian territory. People here grow pot and many still make moonshine. After rereading my post, the word interlopers might seem wierd, but in this area, where I have lived for 33 years, I am still one of those "flatlanders", who came to stay. At any rate my point was that trespassing is a violation, but is greatly overshadowed by the neglect issue. I have never had to turn anyone for animal abuse, but did have to report someone to Family and Children Services for abuse. That began a small version of WW3 which I joined with relish and I did eventually prevail. I don't know where the line is either. If I had been in the situation of having to trespass to make the above situation right, I would have done so, and then accepted my punishment.

In Florida, you do not have to have a "no trespass" sign. In my mind, if you don't own the property, then you should know it's not your property.
While you did "the right thing" in helping the horse, you still violated the property in trespassing.
I'd also like to point out that you used hearsay when you stated 'the horse hadn't been let out for months'(paraphrase) when you were told that by the neighbors, and did not know that from your own information.
I can see where anyone should help an animal in need, but would you feel the same if someone came in your home and opened the reptile cages to take pics of their "tiny" cages, and perhaps even left cages ajar?
The horse was starving, in deplorable conditions, but you have to always weigh in on the idea that you can do the good, without violating others rights at the same time.
Judging people on the state of their home is also wrong. My home isn't much to look at, but I own the property, and if I want to slack off on cleaning for a while, that's my right, since I own it. I take good care of my pets, and that's what matters to me, not how everything looks out in my yard to other people.

What if the laws in the Province that he is located in regarding trespassing are not at all like the laws in Florida? What if instead the law is like that of Michigan or Maine. Did he still violate the property if his action was legal in the jurisdiction that he is located in? If so,it would then be a violation of your customs which also vary from place to place. Not to be offensive but I have noticed a trend on line where people just seem not to be able to comprehend that laws in different places are quite varied as are customs.And entering someone's home without permission and releasing caged reptiles is in a whole different catagory. That is comparing apples to oranges.

I believe you and I have had this discussion before about living in a "rural" area

Actually Cat I think it was me. When I said I lived in a small town of 25,000. It is the 4th largest city in Maine though.

Anyway glad the horse it getting the help it needs.

In Florida, you do not have to have a "no trespass" sign. In my mind, if you don't own the property, then you should know it's not your property.

It is not a question of not knowing that it is your property. It is so everyone can enjoy the State, hunting, fishing and hiking and the like. If you really don't want anyone around then you post it. Out-of-Staters do it all the time.

I only draw parallels to our hobby because it is something we have a vested interest in and understand. So, I’ll add to Theresa's statements.

We know that there is a difference between mistreating a horse and keeping snakes in racks. It is a completely different ballpark. The problem is that there are many out there that lack knowledge and understanding of reptiles and would lump them into the same category. It is a real possibility that sometime in the future many of us will not have the opportunity to keep or work with species that we now do. If the day comes when the majority of the population views the keeping of reptiles as a abuse, I still want you protected by your property rights.

When we decide that some rights are not worth protecting based on emotional feelings for one particular issue we need to be very careful. I know people that keep their rats outside in the barn. If someone feels that keeping rats in tubs is animal cruelty, they still do not have a right to go into your barn and take pictures. If you kept them in a shed, structure of any kind your neighbor shouldn't have the right to go look in your structure to determine the condition of your animals.

I can be inspected by the appropriate agencies (if required) in my state but Bill doesn't have a right to enter my property to check my animals. That should be true anywhere.

If it were another issue one that didn’t pertain to an animal or a danger to a person would you be comfortable to suggest to a person that it is OK to go on to private property because they want to take pictures. Probably not.

As far as I know you need a warrant or probable cause in all fifty states. And that probable cause doesn’t apply to every John Doe who wants to poke his head into your shed.

I completed agree with the below statement.

Not to be offensive but I have noticed a trend on line where people just seem not to be able to comprehend that laws in different places are quite varied as are customs.And entering someone's home without permission and releasing caged reptiles is in a whole different category. That is comparing apples to oranges

But there are some rights guaranteed that one should never be willing to bend their knee. He stated it wasn't open land. A homstead on an acre of property. That really isn't big and I think he knows he shouldn't have been on the property.
That really has nothing to do with the horse but with him being there in the first place.