I would like to state that this is directed only toward Kevin McCurely of N.E.R.D. and would only like him and only him to respond as we are finding out new discoveries about our Hidden Gene Woma that go against what Kevin has stated in the past about Hidden Gene Womas. I tried to be nice in my advertisement to you and let you do the right thing. I also sent emails directly to you and all you did was play stupid, and deny? Kevin, you also tried to say that my founding animal was not in the Hidden Gene Woma lineage? Pictured below are the following: Pewter Soul Sucker in the egg (notice how pink it is in the egg) and out of the egg after its first shed which we produced from breeding our founding male Pewter (made with a Cinnamon) Hidden Gene Woma to a RDR Lesser (not a Hidden Gene Lesser), Sterling Hidden Gene Woma, Super Pastel Hidden Gene Woma, Pewter Hidden Gene Woma, and a Pastel Hidden Gene Woma . Notice all Original Hidden Gene Woma crosses carry Visual Genetic Markers right behind the back of the head. Our Sire a Pewter Hidden Gene Woma is pictured as well as the founding Dam which started it all. This Dam came directly from you a long time ago.
Pewter Soul Sucker in the egg (aka Kamikazie) notice how pink it is.
Pewter Soul Sucker (aka Kamikazie) out of the egg after its 1st shed
Sterling Hidden Gene Woma (aka Kamasutra)
Super Pastel Hidden Gene Woma
Pewter Hidden Gene Woma
Pastel Hidden Gene Woma
Adult Pewter Hidden Gene Woma that looked exactly like his Pewter Hidden Gene Woma offspring as a hatchling.
The Dam that started it all The Original Hidden Gene Woma (Sorry the pic is in shed but is obviously not just a regular Woma)
This is the same Hidden Gene Woma lineage as my Super Pastel Hidden Gene Woma on the WOBP. The same animal that you tried to get removed saying it was not a Hidden Gene Woma? You may intimidate some people Kevin but you do not intimidate me one bit. I am doing this for the INTEGRITY of this industry and this type of non disclosure stuff has to stop. You let the founding 2002 or 2003 Dam out by mistake obviously before you proved out you Granite Hidden Gene Woma in 2006 as it is recorded.
Also two years ago you laid your eyes on the sister of my founding snake and it was a Pastel Hidden Gene Woma that looks exactly like the ones we produce. It was in a facility up near you. We now know how you knew from a glance this was a Original Hidden Gene Woma because this animal exhibited visual genetic markers that are unlike those of the misconstrued Granite HGW. When you talked to the producer of our snake you realized how it came about. You would not explain anything further about your previous assumptions about the Pastel Hidden Gene Woma you had seen. That is when we knew we had something. Kevin do you remember when you said “That it explains it”? That is exactly what you said without any explanation. Clark and I both now know why.
This is not a personal attack against you Kevin as I am not here to defame you. I am here to get this genetically correct. We just want you to tell the truth about the Hidden Gene Woma since our breedings tell a all together different story than yours. Here are just some of our crosses that look a lot different from all of your MORPHED Granite Hidden Gene Woma crosses (the ones you sold) that do not produce a single Granite (Co-Dominant) or "Non-Granite" Hidden Gene Woma (Co-Dominant) pictured above. At times you can see the original snake trying to come through your Granite Hidden Gene Woma. Why the name Granite Kevin if it does not produce them at all? It is definitely not a separate codominant trait like you try to list and allow others to list on all Granite HGW animals and their crosses on the WOBP? This is the only reason we are here is to settle this one point which we tried to handle with you directly.
Above is a photograph of the founding Dam. It was released by N.E.R.D. by mistake. Maybe the flames did not show through because it was just a hatchling or for whatever reason only Kevin could tell us. It’s the subtle snakes like the Het Highways and the Original Hidden Gene Womas that get missed because they are not screaming look at me. That female that you releases was never bred to anything that made the base morph change through out the years. Some other lineages of Ball Pythons including Het Highways can morph and change (misconstrued) when bred to certain animals never to revert back to its original form. The first and second pics listed underneath this paragraph are pictures of our Het Highway breeder male and one of our Het Hiway females. For comparison a third pic next to the Het Hiway pics is of a Gravel (misconstrued snake created from a Het Highway to Yellowbelly breeding). In these breedings you get Normals, Highway Balls and this misconstrued snake that must be bred to prove out either Yellowbelly or Het Highway. Notice the clouds above the belly tracks that are present throughout the whole side of the Het Highways. These clouds are not present on Gravels and the top side of the snake looks now like a gravel road hence the name. The original Het Highways look much closer to a Normal Ball Python than a Yellowbelly from the top side. It is obvious that the Yellowbelly misconstrues the appearance of the Het Highway when the two are bred to each other.
Het Hiway breeder male
Het Hiway Breeder Female
The Gravel offspring that is Misconstrued offspring when breeding a Het Hiway to a Yellowbelly. Notice no Clouds
Here are some things that are said in another forum about your claims of needing a Hidden Gene Lesser to make a Soul Sucker? And one on your Hidden Gene Woma as well.
joe23 said 10/6/2011
yep- thats true. a lesser cant carry the hidden gene without expressing it in phenotype which would make it a platinum.
I know I have read a story somewhere that Kevin’s line of lessers came from Noah out of Africa. Noah paired a platinum with a very light colored lesser female he called Queen Belinda. and since these days where Kevin started to hatching Soul suckers he calls his lessers hg lesser. unfortunately he charges higher prices for them and some people are willing to pay it because they think there is a hidden gene at work. Soul suckers meanwhile have been made out of N.E.R.D. using normal (RDR line) lessers.
Owal Reptiles said 10/16/2011
I talked to Ralph at the NERD table in Tinley. He said that Kevin got what he calls the Hidden Gene Lessers from Africa like you said. However he claims you cannot make a Soul Sucker with the RDR line, only Kevin’s line. He said they tired but you set the two next to each other (HG Lesser/HG Woma compared to Lesser/HG Woma) its clear as day there something else at work. He didn't give much detail on what they know about it besides that. Said they need more time to figure it out.
Originally Posted by cgroyals View Post 4/21/12
this is so confusing, so what is the origin of the Hidden Gene Woma, how did it first come around does anyone know?
Dave Balls Dave Balls 4/21/12
He got the HGW after the Woma and initially thought it was the same thing, when he started combining it with other morphs he realized it was very different, he has said in various videos the 'hidden gene' part just denotes that it reacts with other morphs in ways that you wouldn’t expect.
Its not the best choice of words maybe but I don’t think he did anything devious with the naming of the HGW.
I have to tell you Kevin, Clark and I agree what is said in the 1st post but have to disagree completely with Ralph in the 2nd post listed. We most definitely agree With Dave Balls in the 3rd post but do think you meant to confuse people in naming the misconstrued Granite Hidden Gene Woma. Kevin you also do agree with it as you admit in the third to last paragraph of this thread to us in your own words in a personal email to me. You remember it is when you obsessively sent me 16 emails in two hours from your own personal email address on Sunday 5/27/2012.
We have the absolute without a doubt proof from the breedings that we have done thus far on the Hidden Gene Lesser claim. The questions are Kevin, why would you try to squash an animal that you could obviously identify with clear visual markers, our Super Pastel Hidden Gene Woma? Why the hidden gene lesser story that everyone knows is completely false and off base? Why the outright misinformation on listing the Granite gene separately when we all know that it not a part of your Granite Hidden Gene Woma since it does not act in a Co-Dominant fashion? Do you really think that people are just going to take your words over real breeding data Kevin?
You have Soul Sucker's as well as other crosses marked inaccurately on the WOBP which is really confusing people. If you know what to look for with visual genetic markers that carry through all the crosses of the HGW it is really easy to see. Kevin as the father of this morph you have a responsibility to tell the truth and not try to confuse all of your clients. When I take money for things, I feel the need to disclose everything. That way the customer can never get taken advantage of. When people hide things and don’t show genetic proof, this is what happens. Full disclosure is something you have been avoiding on this for a long time Kevin.
This is a huge misrepresentation of your animals. Kevin you have or had all your people with the Granite Hidden Gene Womas confused with all of this but not us Kevin. You would have got a away with this if you would have never released the snake that produced our Pewter Hidden Gene Woma back in the early 2000's. It is really easy to see everything once you produce some clutches out of a regular Hidden Gene Woma to really see the differences. It must be why you freaked out when you saw the sister to my snake in that facility a few years back.
Also below is an email we sent to Kevin about all the snakes that are misrepresented genetically (some have the same pic different names) on the WOBP. Plus this is the email I sent you Kevin to try and stop this from happening. I also want to mention you are allowing Hidden Gene Womas to be labeled as Granites and vice versa. You really thought that you could just add the granite gene as a separate codominant gene to the Cinnamon Super Pastel Hidden Gene Woma that was mislabeled on the WOBP. That did not appease us at all Kevin as we both know it is completely inaccurate. We both know that with all your Granite HGW’s and its Crosses that you have released and sold to the public will not produce any Granites on their own or Non Granite Hidden Gene Womas.
Kevin as the father of this morph you have a responsibility to tell the truth and not try to confuse all of your clients. When I take money for things, I feel the need to disclose everything. That way the customer can never get taken advantage of. When people hide things and don’t show genetic proof, this is what happens. Full disclosure is something you have been avoiding on this for a long time Kevin.
Kevin,
What do you want to do about all of this as we are ready to move in a couple of days? That gives you enough time to decide. Read everything underneath and it is a simple fix and 100% accurate and correct. It doesn't have to be a public BOI fiasco unless you want it to be? Let us know as we are moving on this soon.
Clark Tucker at Power House Reptiles
Allan,
The animals that are listed on your Morph Page that are labeled Granite Hidden Gene Woma are actually just a single mutation animal. There is NO Granite gene involved. We would like this clarified as it is confusing people about the morph.
When you breed a Granite Hidden Gene Woma it only reproduces itself, a snake named "Granite Hidden Gene Woma". It DOES NOT produce Granites and it also DOES NOT produce Hidden Gene Womas just a mutated version of the Original Hidden Gene Woma. This is clearly shown in the advertisement that Joe sent you a link of. Kevin should not dispute us wanting this mutation clarified. We would like all of the animals labeled Granite Hidden Gene Woma on your Morph Page to be clarified as just a single mutation because, there is no basis for the snake to be labeled as anything other than a single mutation. It is not a DOUBLE MUTATION animal. NO SEPERATE GENES WHEN REFERRING TO "GRANITE HIDDEN GENE WOMA"!!
There are also animals that are labeled as Hidden Gene Womas that are clearly the mutated version that Kevin calls a "Granite Hidden Gene Woma". Those need to be corrected on the Morph Page.
Examples:
Hidden Gene Woma (Granite Hidden Gene Woma) I mean come on Kevin? You have a Granite HGW (That the GHGW’s you release to the public throws no Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s representing a base Hidden Gene Woma? I know you didn’t post this but if I was the father of this morph I would take responsibility to make sure it was accurate which it is not. It obviously is not a base Hidden Gene Woma
Hidden Gene Woma Killer Blast (Granite HGW/ Super Pastel /Spider) Really where is the Super Pastel HGW markings. I tell you where, it is misconstrued by the Granite HGW that the ones you release to the public throws no Granites on their own and Non Granite HGW’s. You want to list the Granite as separate codominant morph in the snake?
Hidden Gene Woma Lemon Pastel (Granite Hidden Gene Woma / Lemon Pastel) Here we go again. No pastel visual genetic marker just a misconstrued snake that throws no Granite crossed to a Lemon Pastel. Plus you want to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin. Since the GHGW’s you release to the public throws no Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s
Hidden Gene Woma Spider (Granite Hidden Gene Woma / Spider ON THE 5th PICTURE ALL OTHERS ARE CORRECTLY LABELED) This is a good one because you put 4 pics of real Spider HGW’s and on the 5th Pic you threw in a misconstrued Granite HGW Spider cross that the ones you release to the public will throw no Granites on their own or non Granite HGW’S.
Hidden Gene Woma Yellowbelly (Granite Hidden Gene Woma / Yellowbelly) This one is so obvious it is made with the misconstrued Granite HGW that the ones oyu release to the public will throw no Granites on their own or non Granite HGW’s.
Crystal Soul Sucker (Granite Hidden Gene Woma / Lesser / Special) This one you made with a Granite HGW that throws no Granites or non Granite HGW’s. It is obvious with the marking on the neck Kevin. Since the GHGW’s you release to the public throws no Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s
Coral Glow Granite Hidden Gene Woma (Coral Glow / Granite Hidden Gene Woma) This one is right but you try to list the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin as we know. Since the GHGW’s you release to the public throws no Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
Cinnamon Granite Hidden Gene Woma Super Pastel ( Cinnamon / Granite Hidden Gene Woma / Super Pastel) You want to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin. Since the GHGW’s you release to the public throws no Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
Enchi Granite Hidden Gene Woma ( Enchi / Granite Hidden Gene Woma) You want to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin. Since the GHGW’s you release to the public throws no Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
Enchi Granite Hidden Gene Woma Pinstripe Super Pastel ( Enchi / Granite Hidden Gene Woma / Pinstripe / Super Pastel) Here we go again. You want to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin. Since the GHGW’s you release to the public throws no Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s
Enchi Granite Hidden Gene Woma Yellowbelly ( Enchi / Granite HGW / Yellowbelly) Trying to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin. Since the GHGW’s you release to the public throws no Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s
Fader Granite Hidden Gene Woma ( Fader / Granite HGW) Trying to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin. Since the GHGW’s you release to the public throws no Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s
Fader Granite HGW Pastel ( Fader / Granite HGW / Pastel) And another one that you are trying to mislead everyone to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin. Since the GHGW’s you release to the public throws no Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s
Fader Granite HGW Super Pastel (Fader / Granite HGW / Super Pastel) Another one. I see a pattern here that I am sure you all see. Trying to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin.
Since the GHGW’s you release to the public throws no Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s
Fader Garnite HGW Yellobelly (Fader / Granite HGW / Yellowbelly) Trying to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin. Since the GHGW’s you release to the public throws no Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s
Fire Granite HGW Yellowbelly ( Fire / Granite HGW / Yellowbelly) Trying to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin. Since the ones you release to the public does not produce Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
Granite Hidden Gene Woma ( Granite HGW ) Shouldn’t break out the Granite Gene Sepreatel because th e GHGW’s that you release to the public does not produce any Granites on their own or NON Granite HGW’s.
Granite HGW Lesser Super Pastel ( Granite HGW / Lesser / Super Pastel) ????? Super Pastel Soul Sucker ???? This is ridiculous. Which is it Kevin. You got the same picture up for both snakes? We both know that it is made with the construed Granite HGW the ones you release to the public doesn’t throw any Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
Granite HGW Pastel (Granite HGW / Pastel) Trying to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the construed snake Kevin. Since the GHGW’s you release to the public does not produce any Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
Granite HGW Pastel Phantom ( Granite HGW / Pastel / Phantom) Trying to break the Granite Gene out separately as codominat in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin. Since the GHGW’s you release to the public does not produce any Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
Granite HGW Special ( Granite HGW / Special) Here is another one Kevin that you are trying to mislead everyone to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin. Since the GHGW’s you release to the public does not produce any Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
Granite HGW Super Pastel ( Granite HGW / Super Lemon Pastel ) Trying to break the granite Gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin. Since the GHGW’s you release to the public does not produce any Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
Granite HGW Yellowbelly ( Granite HGW / Yellowbelly) Trying to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin. Since the GHGW’s you release to the public does not produce any Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
Inferno ( Granite HGW / Lemon Pastel / Yellowbelly) Same thing with the Inferno to confuse people by trying to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin. Since the GHGW’s your release to the public does not produce any Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
Inferno Fader ( Fader / Granite HGW / Lemon Pastel / Yellowbelly) Same thing as above. Trying to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it is not in the misconstrued snake Kevin as we all know. Since the GHGW’s you release to the public does not produce any Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
Super Inferno Fader ( Fader / Granite HGW / Super Pastel / Yellowbelly) Another one that you are trying to mislead everyone to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin. Since the GHGW’s that you release to the public does not produce any Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
Super Inferno Fader Pinstripe ( Fader / Granite HGW / Super Pastel / Yellowbelly / Pinstripe) Here we go again. Another one that you are trying to mislead everyone to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes. It isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin. Since the ones you release to the public does not produce any Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
***** Super Pastel Soul Sucker ***** LABELED AS A GRANITE HGW LESSER SUPER PASTEL EARLIER WITH SAME PIC " DO YOU SEE HOW RIDICULOUS THIS REALLY IS AS THIS IS THE SAME SNAKE ONCE LABELED GRANITE AND THEN AS A ORIGINAL" ( Granite HGW / Lesser / Super Pastel)
Superferno ( Granite HGW / Super Lemon Pastel / Yellowbelly) Trying to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin that you release to the public. Since the GHGW’s you release to the public does not produce any Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
Superferno Fader ( Fader / Granite HGW / Super Lemon Pastel / Yellowbelly) Trying to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake GHGW that you sell to the public Kevin . Since the GHGW’s you release to the public does not produce any Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
*** Enchi Hidden Gene Woma (NOT EVEN A ENCHI IT IS A LEMON PASTEL HIDDEN GENE WOMA)*** No Granite in this one Kevin but you got the wrong snake listed in the cross. Looks just like the 1.1 Pastel Hidden Gene Womas we have hatched this season.
Enchiinferno ( Enchi / Granite HGW / Lemon Pastel / Yellowbelly) Trying to break the Granite gene out separately as codominant in the listing of the genes and it isn’t in the misconstrued snake Kevin. Since the ones that you sell to the public does not produce any Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s
There are also mutated version, the "Granite Hidden Gene Woma" that are labeled Hidden Gene Woma and those need to be clarified as well.
Angel Of Death (Hidden Gene Woma / Lucifer / Lemon Pastel / Yellowbelly / Possibly there actually is a real Co-Dominant Granite in this snake?? Not like all the others listed)
Chocolate Granite Hidden Gene Woma (Chocolate / Hidden Gene Woma) No Granite in this one either.
Enchi Pastel Pinstripe HGW ( Enchi / Pastel / Pinstripe / Granite HGW) Granite HGW and the ones that you sell to the public does not produce any Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
Enchiinferno Fader ( Enchi / Fader / Hidden Gene Woma/ Pastel / Yellowbelly) Here is one without Granite. Everyone notice the genetic markings behind the back of the head. This is obviously not made with the misconstrued Granite HGW that throws no Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
Red Spectrum ( Hidden Gene Woma / Lesser / Pastel / Yellowbelly) Another one you have marked correct and is obviously not made with the misconstrued Granite HGW and the GHGW’s you release to the public throws no Granites on their own or Non Granite HGW’s.
Your friend,
Clark Tucker
www.powerhousereptiles.com
Genetics have to make sense Kevin as we both know. If they don’t, then it is not genetic period as we all know. We are not interested in hearing “I don’t understand how its happening” or “I can’t explain it” because we all know what that means. When you hear those types of things people, then run the other way. We are also are not interested in how many books you wrote, how many pictures of snakes you put up and try to spin out of this and confuse people more but now can not anymore at all, or how many snakes you have produced in the past. That holds no bearing on these points of concern. These are just some of the findings through our breeding of our Pewter Hidden Gene Woma that are in direct conflict of your claims and misrepresentations that you have gone on record with and trying to deny in email with me right now. The thing is Kevin, you just made a HUGE error and told on yourself in one of your emails.
I even have an email directly from you that you just sent me from your personal email saying that your GUILTY but have AMNESIA about a lot of things about your Hidden Gene Woma. These are your words not mine Kevin. “Sorry Charlie, there was Woma and then HG Woma...originally I thought they were the same but came from two sources.....” If you thought they were both the same snake way back when, then why are you causing Clark and I so much grief and calling us names? Put up a picture of one of your regular Original Hidden Gene Womas that looks like a regular Woma. They looked the same when you proved them out in 99 as they do today. As we all know the Original Hidden Gene Woma posted above by us was one of your Original Hidden Gene Womas that look very similar to a regular Woma. So similar, that you made a mistake and released one of them back in the day. Care to explain why the Hidden Gene Woma on the WOBP does not look like a regular Woma? We already know why Kevin, because you misconstrued it with something. You then proceeded to sell and are selling right now the Misconstrued ones to everyone now calling them Hidden Gene Womas and Granite Hidden Gene Womas. Not the Original Hidden Gene Woma like we have.
Kevin, you should of just done the right thing like we asked of you in private and tell the TRUTH. Rather than making this a complete public embarrassment and humiliation for mostly yourself and others. We both gave you several opportunities to come clean and to tell the TRUTH, so this would not happen to you publicly. This was over before it even started as Clark and I both already knew this.
Let’s all let Kevin speak for himself (as he is the only one who can) while keeping it on point and to the topic. I am standing up for the sake and INTEGRITY of this industry and would like you to do the same thing Kevin. This needs to take place in a fair public forum like the BOI where Kevin and only Kevin needs come here to go on record (not on his own web page or it is admitting he is Guilty which he already has in an email to me on 5/27/12), Kevin needs to answer the questions directly that were asked in this thread to him and speak for himself as he is the only one who can. Thanks everyone in advance for your time and understanding in this matter.
Joe Capone at Power House Reptiles
TRUTHS ABOUT THE HIDDEN GENE WOMA THAT ARE IN DIRECT CONFLICT OF KEVIN MCCURELY(NERD)
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