Johathon at Breeders Circle saying his Citrus Pastel WO makes our Power House WO

Hi all, This is Clark Tucker from Power House Reptiles. I have been trying to make people aware for some time now that the animals that are popping up on the internet for sale with the label of Citrus Pastel Whiteout (ever since I made the first crazy wacked out whiteout mutations in 2010) are not animals that carry the gene for the actual Power House Whiteout mutation. This whole fiasco started with the production of a few very unique animals at my facility here in Alabama. Amir and John are saying, even though they cannot provide adequate proof that they are creating the same mutation, that the Citrus Pastel Whiteout will make the Power House Whiteout animals. This is inconclusive since they cannot verify it. Their inventory does not show it and we all know from previous listing that the animals do not show this mutation! Amir and John are presently trying to find pictures of animals that they claim is the mutation since they clearly have no proof that they have the gene. Here is confirmation that John is still trying to say that this Citris pastel will make the animals that we create here. I dont want to sound rude but that is a out and out lie!! I give them credit for making a nice looking pastel but as far as making the Power House Whiteout that is our cup of tea and I am not going to allow Amir to try and take credit were it is not due! The only reason I recieved this animal in the first place was because Amir owed us so much money and he could not pay me back so he recieved a animal in trade and gave it to me as partial trade. It was a 50 gram runt that looked like crap and I thought once again I had been screwed. Enough said here is John's response to a customer inquiring about this Whiteout line.
As everone can clearly see this animal looks nothing like the Power House Whiteout animals. Is it not in our nature people to brag about what we produce?? If he had made animals that were comaparable to the Power House Whiteout animals they would be all over the internet even if they were not for sale, correct?? Why did he have to buy Mike Bell's animal that is comparable to mine if he was making 10 or 20 clutches of this mutation a season?? If he was producing these mutatuions why are they not all over the internet??? He would be bragging for sure!

This is a Pm so it reads from the bottom up.

----- Original Message -----
From: <jonathan@breedingcircle.com>
To: ">
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: Message about: 2011 Citrus whiteout spector female.


> here is a pic of an extreme whiteout calico pastel. This is not a super
> pastel, just a citrus whiteout calico. Best one produced to this day.
> The leopard crossed with it would be awesome. Citrus line of pastel is
> just amazing. That is why i work with them. No pastel line comes close in
> my opinion. Cant wait to see what kind of combos I will have this season.
>
>> Can you send me a picture of a actual whiteout? I am looking to get into
>> them as they seem to be a really nice line and is on the verge of being a
>> great mutation. I have a nice leopard I would like to take to a female!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <jonathan@breedingcircle.com>
>> To: <>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:01 AM
>> Subject: Re: Message about: 2011 Citrus whiteout spector female.
>>
>>
>>> Hey,
>>> You have to try to ask your self where he got it from...
>>> Its funny that clark says that when... first of all he got that
>>> "powerhouse whiteout" from amir as a citrus calico. That is how his
>>> entire
>>> line was started. Amir had it deep in his collection already.
>>> The truth from the actual creator, Amir Soleymani and me being the
>>> person
>>> with the 2nd highest amount of citrus and citrus whiteout stuff is
>>> completely different than what he pans it out to be.
>>> He is just mad that amir wouldnt back him up when he created whiteout
>>> stuff from his citrus line.
>>> Non whiteout looking citruses have been throwing whiteouts and whiteouts
>>> throw out regular citruses. Amir called ALL of his citruses whiteouts.
>>> Right now Amir and I both think there is still a lot to learn about the
>>> gene its self. Clark couldnt possibly know what is going on from a
>>> couple
>>> clutches.
>>> Amir has had clutches in the 10's or the 20's/ I wonder who I would
>>> listen
>>> to first....
>>> Just my 2 cents on the matter. It is still a new gene with a lot more to
>>> learn.
>>> thanks
>>> Jonathan
>>>> *************
>>>> NOTE: This message was sent to you via the Kingsnake.com Classifieds.
>>>> If you feel this message is fraudulent or abusive please forward it to
>>>> classifieds@pethobbyist.com.
>>>> NOTE: DO NOT flag this message as SPAM/JUNK as your ability to receive
>>>> legitimate messages from Kingsnake.com Classifieds may be compromised
>>>> *************
>>>>
>>>> What is a whiteout exactly I have seen them popping up everywhere here
>>>> on
>>>> kingsnake and on fauna and now on world of ball pythons.
>>>> Clark from Clarks geckos and Powerhouse Reptiles has some really nice
>>>> ones and his are
>>>> guaranteed to be true I was wondering the difference?
>>>> As he states that some may be fake that
>>>> are being sold not saying that yours are!
>>>> ----------------------------------------------
>>>> Click on (or cut and paste into you browser's
>>>> location window) the URL below to view the ad that
>>>> this message is in response to.
>>>>
>>>> http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?de=885670&cat=32
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------
>>>> This message was sent by an unregistered or non logged in user.
>>>> This person may or may not be who they say they are.
>>>> The return address they provide may or may not be their correct
>>>> address.
>>>>
>>>> Sent 07:21 AM, Oct 27th, 2011 from I.P. Address
>>>> 24.96.204.221/user-24-96-204-221.knology.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>> Breeder's Circle
>>> 786-973-3364
>>> www.breedingcircle.com
>>> www.thewormcompany.com
>>> www.reptilewebmasters.com
>>>
>>

Here is the picture that was provided in the PM.



Amir and John show the Whiteout mutations that are comparable to mine or shut up because this is rediculous. I cannot believe on the Joe Ellis ad you actually put a picture of a nice Black Pewter and nice Cinnamon Pewter to try and trick people into thinking there was something to this Citrus line. Dont you dare show Mike Bell's animals and dont hesitate and try to find pictures that belong to other breeders that you can buy! I want to see animals RIGHT NOW that are in your collection that are comparable to my Power House mutations. If these animals exist, dont you people believe, that they would be visible everywhere on the internet and they would using those animals as their sales pitch but as of now they are using my animals as their sales pitch and that is my problem here!!!!! Joe said he would renter the story about Amir and the snake if people need to reqad it again since Joe Ellis has deleted the ad.

Good job John for updating your ads hiding all the fake spector, het puma and whiteouts. Too bad I copied all of those pictures off of your site before you could take them down.

Best regards,
Clark Tucker
www.powerhousereptiles.com
334-422-4246

Ouch!

Maybe I missed it in there - could you please point out where, exactly, John stated that Amir's citrus pastel WO makes Powerhouse WOs?
I realize that he said first of all he got that "powerhouse whiteout" from amir as a citrus calico. That is how his entire line was started, but that isn't really the same thing.
Is this really Clark? Or Joe, again?

Can't we just all get along. I have been reading many threads on the BOI and wonder if people have lives. I really am happy if other breeders do great. Obviously I don't have the money tied up in this like most. I figure I will never make anything new. But I am happy if others make cool stuff. If they want to call it a Purple People eater snake and I think its not then who cares. I have better things to do with my time than worry about how other people handle their business. I can only worry about mine.
I do get a kick out of some of the Pissing contests I see on here and this is my first time ever posting in one.
Ok sorry now back on topic..... So, Ya don't say?

My 2 cents

Lets let the audience learn a few things before anything here:

1. After I posted a response on Joe Ellises ad talking about the
assumptions with either one of these genes, the "citrus whiteout" or the
"powerhouse whiteout" I got a phone call from Clark, he literally
THREATENED MY LIFE over the phone. Said a biker gang was going beat me up
and he is going to come down to Miami to beat me. Yelling at me BOY BOY
BOY. I hung up and he called again. THAT IS A THREAT

2. Lets look at the track records for a moment please:
Jonathan Foltz of Breeders Circle: NEVER HAD A BAD THREAD ON ME EVER, go
look for yourselves.
The Powerhouse team, which is run by Joseph Capone II and has a front man,
Clark Tucker (a former gecko breeder):

Thread on how capone ruined the market and how he is a bad guy, now with
Clark.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Capone-is-back

Thread On capone selling something as its not
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-Reptiles-.-.-.

On how Capone was ruining the market
http://www.saltwaterreptiles.com/tes...pic=636.5;wap2

On how clark is crashing our market now. Reminder of what capone did before.
http://www..net//showthread.php?t=19090

More about Capone's ways
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-Joseph-Capone

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-legit-or-scam

If you guys have a couple hours to spare with How Capone and MKR ruined
the market and lied to people
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...t=27053&page=7

It can go on and on but you guys get the point here.

Now Clark,
You are claiming that I said that the citrus whiteout makes your
powerhouse whiteout??
Please explain to where this is stated??
I dont even tell people that my citruses will produce
whiteouts guaranteed, I do though say that with a regular citrus you may or may not produce
whiteouts. That is what we have seen. All my customers know this and NOT ONE CUSTOMER HAS COMPLAINED TO ME TO THIS DAY.
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR SNAKES. Amir stated in the link below that it wasnt even really brought to his attention until a few others were producing some tweaked out snakes from citruses. You are also stealing Amir's name of whiteout. He is the first to name his
citrus pastel whiteouts. For several reasons.
He explains this in this link here:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...iteout-Pastels!
With the track records, are we going to believe Amir or Capone that crashed the market and his front man Clark?? I don't think that is a hard question at all.

This just seems to be a huge Vendetta against Amir through Capone and Clark and obviouslly me since I am in this project (And not to mention their main competition here on fauna on this project). They are using iron fist tactics of capitalism filled with lies. Lies that are defamating, I do in fact take this serious.
Fake spectors? When I have produced some of the cleanest superstripes out there?
Fake Het puma? That I got from Amir, the maker of the morph? Do you guys even have a het puma yet?

All we had to do is talk about both morphs, just as if this was butters vs lessers. And if in fact your morph is something completely different then run with it! Make as much as you guys want! Regardless Amir nas named his citruses whiteouts, you cannot take that name. Make your own name and make 100's of thousands of dollars. If your morph is doing so much more than this one then why are we here? I dont care if others make plenty of money, but using these type of tactics to attack another person is completely unethical.
Dont tell people that we are telling others that we can create the Powerhouse whiteout when we never have.
Please stop trying to defame me as it is only hurting you guys. I will gladly end this pissing contest and you can go on to making your money, I just want to continue doing what i love and have fun doing it. I dont need the politics. I will be posting pictures coming up of the citrus whiteouts, NOT powerhouse whiteouts.

I dont have time for this rant of lies. Anyone that has any type of questions, you are more than free to contact me on the matter.

I guarantee every single reptile that comes out of our facilities, 100%. My record speaks for its self.

John,

How childish of you to first even claim that I threatened your life (what a joke) and secondly to throw up old news about Joe and I when Fauna Classifieds would allow anyone to say whatever they wanted about people at that time. Every bit of the information that you put up has absoluterly no basis. In fact, most of it is just lies and slander about Joe from people who do not even know him saying that he did things that he didnt even do and noone ever proved that he did. Before the end of this we will have proved withouit a shadow of doubt that you are a real piece of work by selling animals that are not what you say they are!!! You on the other hand may for now have no bad guy threads but as I see it you will soon. You have taken a POS Pastel and made it into a Mazerati. How dare you say that you dont guarantee the animals that you sell as Citrus Pastel Whiteouts that are just normal Pastel but yet and still people are willing to pay over $1,000 each for them. You and everyone else knows that you tell people just as you did in the message that I attached in the beginning of this thread that the animal that made the cool morphs at Power House Reptiles came from a Citrus Calico. Why then would you have even commented in response to the question asked about the Power House animals???? I told you that you were selling fake animals and then you blow back with that you make the best Super Stripes and that the Het Pumas came from Amir well, that just is the icing on the cake. This lets everyone know that I copied the pictures from those ads and your website before you gracefully changed all of your Kingsnake ads. Your right I dont have Spectors or Het Pumas but I have very good friends that do and your animals are FAKE!!!!! I dont give a rats rear were you got them from!!!! FLIPPER!!!! Just like the 10 Bees for $3000 you picked up In Daytona from Mark Bailey and then called up one of my good friends and said these 5 look like Bumble Bellies dont they and then proceeded to sell them as if they were just that at $1800 a piece. Next post that I have to make against you I am laying up all of the fake snakes that you are trying to sell on here as well as Kingsnake. Exactly John, lets get the audience to decide whether your FAKES are the real deal. The place were Amir is hiding everyone there wants to the Citrus Pastel Whiteouts not your crummy Citrus Pastels. Oh that is right John you dont make Whiteouts (nor do you know how to operate a camera to clarify things) you just sell off of our snakes and lie!!!

This next post that I have to make is going to be very damaging to you and Amir!! You better start learning the back stroke because you are going to need it!

Back to the audience, all you have to do is go to You Tube and type in Citrus Pastel Whiteout and you can see for yourselves that there is nothing but Pastels coming from these clutches. We on the other hand make 2 to 3 of our Power House Whiteouts per clutch. They have nothing to do with any pastel nor did they ever and the proof is already in the pudding at World of Ball Pythons and that is why they stripped the Whiteout from the Citrus Pastel because even they know if it bull crap! IF I WERE ANY OF YOU PEOPLE THAT BOUGHT A CITRUS PASTEL WHITEOUT FROM AMIR OR BREEDERS CIRCLE I WOULD BE DEMANDING MY MONEY BACK BECAUSE YOU PURCHASED NOTHING MORE THAN A $100 PASTEL!!!!

Best regards,
Clark Tucker
PHR
334 422 4246

Not to get in the middle but the add that seemed to start this all was a very nice looking snake if it was a normal citrus it was hot. But in that add it did say proven citrus whiteout (I believe kind of wish that add had been frozen just for argument sake since I'm guessing this will be the hot topic for a while) and if this is true it should be very easy to put to rest this whole debate.

If the animal in question is proven citrus whiteout it would have produced whiteout animals and I don't think anyone breeding snakes today would have not snapped a few pics of said animals or just sold them off quick and not done so.

Also if the animal in question produced a few clutches and that is why it is being called proven then that is fine but it should have been made known by the seller that in that case it did not prove out to be a whiteout gene carrier not saying that it still may not but most co-doms as I think whiteout is should prove out in a few breeding's.

If someone is saying that this gene is random it just comes up every once in a while for me to fork over that kind of dough I would want to see visual animals or babies from a non visual animal. You can see where this will get out of hand and people need to be concerned if it's random I'm guessing there will be possible whiteout gene carriers popping up like crazy in the months to come.

I have been around a while and reading and following these forums and am aware of mister Copone's dealings and don't have a problem with anyone else involved in this but my questions all revolve around the animals and the genetics. Amir has done great things in the industry and Clark and John seem like good enough folks so why don't you all throw down the torches and pitch forks and figure this out before your destroy each other and probably take a few with you along the way.

For those that want to see that it has nothing to do with a Pastel and to show the animals that Amir and John want you to believe you will mak with those simple Pastels that they sell, Here they are!!!

Mojave Power House Whiteout (Told you PROOF IN THE PUDDING!!!)


Pastave Calico Power House Whiteout


I think that these pictures should speak for themselves. The Power House Whiteout is a phenominal mutation that shows itself in the single mutation form (not hidden in some pastel) and looks like a Super Pastel when crossed to any Pastel line as I have proven several times!!! IF I WERE ANY OF YOU THAT BOUGHT CITRUS POASTEL WHITEOUTS FROM AMIR OR JOHN AT BREEDERS CIRCLE I WOULD BE DEMANDING A REFUND BECAUSE NONE OF YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE OUR SNAKES!!!! Isnt that why you overpayed for just a Citrus Pastel anyway is to make the snakes that I have made and more?? John how dare you selling a dream that you know will never come true and misrepresemnt your animals. Oh, I forgot that is your MO.

Next post is a doozy!!!

Best regards,
Clark
PHR
334 422 4246

Originally Posted by clarksgeckos

If he was producing these mutatuions why are they not all over the internet??? He would be bragging for sure!


>>>
>>

If these animals exist, dont you people believe, that they would be visible everywhere on the internet and they would using those animals as their sales pitch but as of now they are using my animals as their sales pitch and that is my problem here!!!!! Joe said he would renter the story about Amir and the snake if people need to reqad it again since Joe Ellis has deleted the ad.


Best regards,
Clark Tucker
www.powerhousereptiles.com
334-422-4246

Okay, first of all, learn to preview draft your posts in MS Word or some other program and use a spell checker, or learn to spell. It's hard to read your posts and take ANYONE seriously that can't use correct grammar and spelling.

Secondly, Every morph ever made in the ball python universe is NOT readily available for viewing on the internet; No matter how badly someone might want to brag. Amir, Ralph Davis, etc. all of these guys know this, obviously you don't? My Example, The Flatline?

Thirdly, I think Jon's post clearly explains his side (and his innocence of your accusations) and that without proof, your allegations are just blowing smoke up everyone's . He has a solid reputation both in the Fauna community and elsewhere.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck with that spell checking program!

I'm pretty sure someone is just butthurt.