Chuck Tornetta - Big trade deal gone south

Well, i recently did a large trade deal with Chuck Tornetta. Big Mistake! I was selling my adult pair of sharp strain animals. Well, i had a awesome 7ft female albino and a 6ft male het. I posted these animals up for sale for $7500. Well, i would say about a half hour after posting them on kingsnake, Chuck called and left a message. Besides his inquiry i had about 8-10 other calls and emails. In Chucks message he said how BADLY he wanted these animals and how he had a trade deal for me that would absolutely blow my mind. I did not want to trade at all. I wanted only cash but i talked to Chuck anyway to see if he had anything entising to offer me. We talked by email during the night of the deal. We exchanged many emails and then we came to an agreement. I will explain what i was getting in a minute but first i will fill you in on how it all went down. When we originally were gonna make the agreement, i told Chuck i would drive 2/3 of the way UNTIL i realized just how far he was from me. A whole 10 hrs to be exact. Anyway, i emailed him to let him know there was no way i could do this, it was just too much as i expected he was

only about 6hrs away, at most (if i remember correctly). Anyway, at first chuck made a big fuss about this because of the absolutely wonderful deal he felt he was giving me. I told Chuck it just was not at all possible. So Chuck then made an agreement he would drive 2/3 of the way. Then he changed his mind and decided we would both just ship the same day as the other by way of US Airways. Anyway, Chuck put a trade value on his animals of $12,250. This seems like a great deal right? Well, it had to be for me to make a trade instead of except cash and i told Chuck this from the beginning. Let me show you the deal page chuck made himself.

From :
CHUCKTORNETTA@aol.com

To :
dqreps@hotmail.com

Subject :
NEW GAURENTEE AND DEAL PAGE

Date :
Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:25:40 EDT

Reply Reply All Forward Delete Put in Folder...InboxSent MessagesDraftsTrash Can Printer Friendly Version

Remember you have to drive 3/4 to me.

TRADE DEAL
Chuck Tornetta Reptiles
1. male cb7-03 snow boa (possible blizzard boa) $ 6,500.00
1. male coral cb 8-03 $ 2,000.00
.1 female coral albino cb 5-03 $ 2,500.00
.2 females 67% possible heterozygous snow (albino - anery ) $ 500.00
1. male very clean pastel boa cb 00 $ 750.00
These are my normal retail prices and have not been exaggerated or inflated in anyway. TOTAL 12,250.00 IN TRADE ANIMALS FOR ;

dqreps@hotmail.com Adult female sharp strain albino female $ 7,500.00
and adult male breeder het sharp originally from myself chuck tornetta reptiles

Dallas to meet me 3/4 way on this deal from his house to mine .
All animals on both sides and from both partys must be in good health.
Mite free and well represented
Even trade no additional moneys owed or liabilities after the deal besides a healthy animal guarantee in effect at least 2 DAYS after the deal.
thankyou chuck tornetta reptiles 609-272-8680

Now, this deal that we originally made would have been fine and dandy except for the fact that Chuck LIED about a couple of the animals i was getting and totally misrepresented some of the others. For instance. Chuck told me that he was gonna sell this male snow to Jeremy Stone for $6500. Yup, he told me Jeremy Stone wanted to Buy this animal for $6500. Why? Well, apparently Jeremy Stone wanted this animals because it was a "possible Blizzard" As Chuck labeled it on the trade page above. Now, i dont know about any of you but i have never heard of a snow boa all of the sudden turning into a all white new morph called the "blizzard boa". I may be wrong about this, i dont know. All i know is that chuck said this animal i have, that he produced, was the whitest snow boa TO DATE. That means that it is whiter than any that Pro Exotics have, Pete Kahl, etc. I recieved this animal and i highly doubt it. It IS nice, VERY white, but not a blizzard boa. Now, that was my opinion. What was Jeremy Stones? He said that Chuck was full of it, NONE of it was true. Jeremy did like the animal because it was very white but was not going to buy the animal from Chuck but trade for it. Not $6500 dollars! So, we all know that this animal goes for $5500. Now, that means that Chuck misrepresented the animal, stating that it was possibly something that it was not. Something that he had absolutely NO evidence to back up. There has to be a method to ones madness. Chuck has NO ryhm or reason at all. So i am down 1k so far from what i was supposed to be getting. Chuck LIED when he said Jeremy Stone was gonna buy it for $6500 and jacked it up a 1k. Ok, we got that straight.

Now, the fun continues. Chuck was supposed to be sending me a pair of unrelated CORAL ALBINOS as you can see from the deal page above. Well, it is strange, because when i recieved these animals, i got one coral albino male which we agreed upon and one NORMAL albino female that was NOT agreed upone but instead i was supposed to get a coral female. The grand total for this lied/misrepresented pair was $4500. Get this, well, you can see above but 2k for the actual coral male and $2500 for the NORMAL albino he sent me. Chuck swore up and down what an awesome animal this "coral albino female" was. He told me it was worth every penney for $2500, $500 more than the coral male mind you. He told me she was exceptional. He also said part of the reason he was charging $500 for the coral female (not) was because she was a may 2003 baby. The male was a august 2002 baby. He told me that she was older so she was worth more. In other words, she was a 2003 baby, born in may and only 3 months older than the male BUT this few months made her worth more. That is total BS! Anyway, i was a little surprised when i recieved the animals and saw that the female was a normal albino, much to my dismay. I could not believe it. But i gave Chuck the benefit of the doubt. I emailed Chuck and asked him about it. I did not even say it was not a coral, i asked him why it looked so normal and he said they all start out as normal looking albinos. He told me that the male looked like a coral because he was exceptional. Yet, at only 1 month of age, this male was showing the coral color that the 3 month female was not?? What the heck? Anyway, lied to me, an obvious misrepresntation, he totally ripped me off. I decided to sell these animals and only got a measily $2500 out of them. THAT is a 2k loss. So that is 3k so far. I had many emails stating that i got ripped off at what i payed because the female was a normal, NOT a coral albino. I am no expert at coral albinos, never owning one in my life. So i did not jump to conclusions at first, but the ending verdict is obvious. This brings the total of Chucks trade down to about $9250. At least in my eyes as no one was gonna pay me more than this for them. To be honest, i am not exactly sure what corals go for. I asked the people that emailed me and i have been told several different prices but i am not sure. I would say about $1750-$2000, can anyone tell me? I appreciate any info on these coral albinos that is pertinent to this issue.

Then, on to the rest of the animals. The two female 66% poss DH for snows were as advertised and i am not even sure if $500 is a fair price for them, but as i far as i know, it is fair. The male BCI that i got from Chuck in the trade was not too bad but was misrepresented as well really. The pic he sent me made this animal look EXTREMELY light in color. I asked him about it and he said he was very light. I get him and he is not all that light. He is a real dirty color but he is very clean, i will say that. Anyway, i did get $600 out of him because he is a very nice animal, just not what he lead me to believe. He def charged $150 too much.

Before we did the deal, i told Chuck i tought his prices in the deal page were a little exaggerated. Well, he told me he is not gonna lower his prices for anyone that he charges what he likes. I did not make a fuss, it is up to him to decided what he charges for the animals BUT NOT up to him to decided the actual worth. Someone can advertise something at a certain price all day but if it does not sell after weeks of advertising, is it really worth what one is asking? I for one dont think so. Something is only worth what you can get for it, in my opinion anyway.

In all actuallity i got about 9k worth of animals. This is not bad but he said i was getting $12,250 and that was what i expected. He carried on like i was getting the deal of the century. What a joke. I told him up front it had to be just that for me to do a trade because i did not want to, i wanted cash. He hounded me so much and made me feel bad for him because he was so pathetic that i decided i would help him out and do the trade. All along he was acting like he was doing me a favor. Sure.

Anyway, many of us have dealt with crap like this. It sucks and it is too bad that some people are pathetic enough to take advantage of honest, hard working people. Hard work and honesty... something, some, know nothing about. It is funny, because i had a bad gut feeling about this deal, that Chuck was maybe being dishonest in some way. I told him i was thinking twice about it and he flipped on me. He went off saying i strung him along and this and that. Well, it worked. I did it just to shut him up and because he made me feel guilty. BIG mistake.

I learned a couple lessons. One, no matter how sincere and trustworthy a person seems to be. Dont trust them no matter what! Until they have proved their worth or IF they have some actual well known references that will back them up. For instance, Chuck kept throwing Jeremy Stone's name around, using it to his advantage. Well, what i should have done is called jeremy and asked him about all this at the time of the deal. Jeremy would have told me the truth and i would have told Chuck to get lost. This brings me to number two, take your time. Dont let someone rush a deal as Chuck did to me. He tried to get me to take the add i had on kingsnake off asap. He was rushing me and this and that. He wanted to do the deal as fast as possible before i learned otherwise of his lies. Three, if i am not FULLY educated on a animal/morph i dont usually deal with, DO IT!! I learned i must be familiar with the animals i am going after, as far as pricing, being able to tell the genuine thing (ie coral albino) from a bogus one immediatly etc.

I dont usually do trades, hardly ever. But Chuck suckered me in. I admit it. I have been in the solid contributor/seller/buyer in the this biz for a few years now. Not a LONG time but long enough. It just goes to show that no matter how well you are doing, or who you are, you still cant let your guard down, ever. I have a good list of loyal customers i know i can trust. And i also have a short list of people i would not trust as far as i can throw them.

Also, i did email Chuck about this and a couple other things. One of them including how Chuck put the 7ft female Sharp Strain Albino up for sale about a week or so after he bought her. He BEGGED me for these two animals and then he puts her up for sale. And get this, he put her up for 10k. Can you imagine that?!! What someone charges is their biz but that just does'nt seem right. How payed 6k for the female, how could he possibly charge 10k for just her alone? It's called being very greedy and selfish.

Anyway, the reason for this post was to inform others about this well versed scam artist. I dont like to post here because i think it is highly political and even the good guy often gets nailed and ridiculed for nothing. BUT in this case, it was just too much and i could not let it pass. Please be careful and watch out for this guy.

Good luck to all of you!

Thanks,
Dallas Quarles Reptiles

In all actuallity i got about 9k worth of animals.

Wow, I will NEVER deal with somebody that gives me only 9k worth of animals for my $7500 snake.

Thats just unreal, you may want to sue him.
Tell the judge you got $9000 for an animal you were offering for $7500, I'm sure the judge will find that Chuck owes you at least another $45.500.12

You dont get it do you? Thats not the point, he lied about the animals, he sent me 3k less than we agreed on. He sent me an animal i did not want! I dont think an albin and an albino coral are of the same value. Did i say i am gonna do anything about, take him to court? Nope, i did not. And guess what buddy? It does not matter how much i wanted for my animals. That has NOTHING to do with it. Value on my end has NOTHING to do with it. Why? Because no matter what i wanted for my animals, Chuck lead me to believe that he was giving me a OUT OF THIS WORLD deal where i could keep the animals OR sell some and make an extra 4-5k, if i wanted. See, when you are close minded, it may be hard to see the facts at hand, i am not. The fact is, i was lied to, the animals were misrepresented and i said nothing about court my friend, you did. YOU are the reason i dont post her, i hate unintelligent comments from know it alls that cant even seem to grasp the point of the subject at hand. If someone says they are giving me $12,250 in trade, it better be $12,250 NOT $9,000 Pal. Get it? Man, what a waste.

Dallas Quarles

Chuck lead me to believe that he was giving me a OUT OF THIS WORLD deal where i could keep the animals OR sell some and make an extra 4-5k, if i wanted.

LOL, next time you get an out of this world deal, you should jump on it as well. Greed is beautiful isn't it?

YOU are the reason i dont post her,

Must not be working that well.

If someone says they are giving me $12,250 in trade, it better be $12,250 NOT $9,000 Pal.

1. Not your pal!
2. In his eyes his animals were worth 12.5k, you agreed, you traded. Don't whine because you didn't get as much as you would have liked.

I am no expert at coral albinos, never owning one in my life.

So how did you know the female was not a Coral?

and i am not even sure if $500 is a fair price for them,

Too late, you did the trade.

i told Chuck i tought his prices in the deal page were a little exaggerated. Well, he told me he is not gonna lower his prices for anyone that he charges what he likes. I did not make a fuss,

Yet you still went through with the trade?

First off I want to say I have done buisness with Chuck in the past. Chuck is one of the good guys out there very honest and upfront about everything. He was a pleasure to do buisness with and someone I look foward to dealing with in the future now with that said.

first off

When we originally were gonna make the agreement, i told Chuck i would drive 2/3 of the way UNTIL i realized just how far he was from me.

This is all water under the bridge. Didnt you buy that het sharp male from Chuck and insist he give it to Brian Sharp and Brian ship it to you because you didnt trust him? Well if I were in his shoes after that I would want to met as well. It makes it a little hard to trust someone when the

Chuck told me that he was gonna sell this male snow to Jeremy Stone for $6500. Yup, he told me Jeremy Stone wanted to Buy this animal for $6500. Why? Well, apparently Jeremy Stone wanted this animals because it was a "possible Blizzard" As Chuck labeled it on the trade page above.

I dont know anything about blizzards snows but your accusing Chuck of miss labeling an animal. Wasnt it you that was labeling a 7yr old female as a virgin when in fact you only aquired the female within the last year? If you only had that female for a year or so how do you know shes never been bred? Your ad to me seemed a little fishy why would someone have a 7yr old sharp strain female and have not atempted to bred it? that doesnt make sense to me. If it were a Kahl strain ya I could see it but a 7yr old sharp that doesnt make no sense to me there just way to valuable. I just cant see letting an animal like that sit around for 6 or 7 yrs.

Well, it is strange, because when i recieved these animals, i got one coral albino male which we agreed upon and one NORMAL albino female that was NOT agreed upone but instead i was supposed to get a coral female

How do you know the female is normal? a very good freind of mine breeds a bunch of corals every year and some dont start to show their colors till 8 or 10 months old then the corally pink will start to come through. Ive shared tables with this freind of mine many times and got to watch how the corals progress and change within a year. One thing I can tell you is that if you got a 6 month old and are accusing Chuck of ripping you off because its not bright pink you are severly jumping the gun. Some dont show till later on. And I can tell ya Chucks corals are some of the nicest out there I have seen quite a few of them. till there 12 months old theyll be so bright theyll blow your mind.

I asked the people that emailed me and i have been told several different prices but i am not sure. I would say about $1750-$2000, can anyone tell me? I appreciate any info on these coral albinos that is pertinent to this issue.

I have seen them all the way up to $2500 for some outstanding animals. A friend of mine last year was rolling them off the table at $2250 last year some shows hed sell 3 or 4 a show once the coral started to come through. I dont know about you but I dont know many people that will sell several $2000+ albinos in one show. Dumping that pair at $2500 was you fault no one elses. Its sounds more to me that you pissed because you sold them for less then you wanted and are taking that anger out else were. Because I could be mistaken but didnt you label them both as corals in your ad? I read it but wasnt really paying that much attention and thought you had them priced at $2500 as a real steal or something?

I dont know anything about blizzard snows. Corals, well you jumped the gun and dumped them cheap and your the only one top blame for that. I know what chucks corals look like at a yr of age and just like any other color morph out there you have outstanding animals in a litter and some average. But you dumped them what? within a week so you dont even know what they will look like. Maybe she wont turn out to be an outstanding coral female but that doesnt mean she doesnt carry the genes and when bred to an awesome male wont throw great babies. As far as Jermy well he has some skeletons in his closet to, but this post isnt about him so this he said she said crap really doesnt belong here. as far as Chuck putting it up at 10g's its his animal, he has every right to post it at what ever he wants. I dont think that price is to far off for an adult sharp female especially this time of year.
take at easy and calm down a little bit dude.

Damn, as i remember, you guys are ignorrant and brutal. I tried to help Chuck. He begged me to do the deal and i did. I am not gonna go through anymore BS posts like this and i have learned my lesson now, i am not gonna post here anyone to warn anyone. It always gets turned around on the good guy that got screwed. I will address a couple issues.

One, i got the 7ft female from Brian Sharp himself who told me it had not been bred etc before. i will take brians word for it, if no one else does, fine. Your logic sucks because it does not matter what strain it is, what does that have to do with it?

Also, i was told by several well known dealers that told me it definatly was indeed NOT an albino coral. That was good enough for me. So me selling them for $2500 after trying get what i paid for them to no avail, yeah, that was well warranted, i had to get SOMETHING BACK.

Also, dont forget, jeremy stone himeself said Chuck was full of it and made up the whole thing to work the deal on me. So i dont care if you had had good biz with him in the past or not, he is definatly a sketchy disonhest man.

Also if 10k is a good deal for my female this time of the year, then i guess his trade deal was just too low still. I got an albino NOT coral albino and he charged me 1k more than the snow is worth. Hey, he is just a bad biz man and wont even talk to me about it. He stiffed me and that is fine, i am moving on, i was just trying to help but i knew this would cause more damage than good with all the negative, selfish egos on here. i wont be posting here again, you guys can have this place. It sucks.

L8R
Dallas Quarles

i wont be posting here again, you guys can have this place. It sucks.

Too bad. So sad. Buh bye.

how a sale could turn into such a nightmare after so many, many posts warn you about not trading with people you dont even know. Their is always a loser in trading like this, and when based on Greed, you eventually get what you deserve. JERRY TRESSER

Do you have any of the follow up emails you two exchanged? Often how someone reacts after the deal means more than how they acted before. Did he try to explain or rectify the situation? Did you give him a chance to explain?

This board of inquiry is visited by many people who choose not to post, so you should be very careful when you post negatively about someone. It is usually the people who disagree with you who post first, some of them are well versed in "RUDE".
I think Chuck is probably a good guy, and I know he would not want a black mark on his reputation. Inflamatory posts will only make it worse on Chuck.

Dallas, Dallas, Dallas,

Aren't you the same Dallas Quarles that was complaining about some animals being sick or dying? Aren't you the same one that said you had proof? Aren't you the same one who up to know showed no proof? Aren't you the same guy who sold those same dead or dying animals?

yup I thought that was you.


Coral albinos = I have a little bit of experience with them. I know that some come out looking coral. And some take SEVERAL months to get their color.
so basically you came here complaining about something you do not have a clue about.

I have a friend who bought a normal boa from a pretty new corral producer. he got an awesome deal.....because he bought a "normal" albino at "normal" albino prices. SEVERAL months later this albino starts "coralling" out.

Now let's talk snow.
Snow is an animal that is homozygous for Anery and homozygous for albino.
BLIZZARD = is an animal that is homozygous for TYPE 2 anery and homozygous for albino. The type 2 anery will supposedly produce a whiter snow than a regular anery. Go ahead and ask all your so called breeder friends. They will tell you the same thing (If you do have any real well known breeder friends)

Also, i was told by several well known dealers that told me it definatly was indeed NOT an albino coral.

I told my friend the same thing. until several months later when his albino started turning orange-pink all over.


I can go on and on and on.
But I will turn this looong story short.
This is not a deal gone bad.
This is a deal that SOUNDS like it went bad because the guy complaining has NO CLUE what animals he has. It is because a guy is dealing in animals he has NO CLUE about. He let his ignorance and greed get the best of him. he saw lots of dollar signs $$$$$. If he would have just been patient... he could have produced some albinos himself and made a killing.

Also if 10k is a good deal for my female this time of the year, then i guess his trade deal was just too low still.

Sounds to me like someone is pissed because they did not know that they could have sold their animals at higher prices.

Also, i did email Chuck about this and a couple other things. One of them including how Chuck put the 7ft female Sharp Strain Albino up for sale about a week or so after he bought her. He BEGGED me for these two animals and then he puts her up for sale. And get this, he put her up for 10k. Can you imagine that?!! What someone charges is their biz but that just does'nt seem right. How payed 6k for the female, how could he possibly charge 10k for just her alone? It's called being very greedy and selfish.

Sounds to me like someone is pissed because he did not know that he could have charged another $4000 and now he is kicking himself.




That is the difference between you and me. you realized you were stupid and are now taking it out on Chuck. but the truth is you were clueless and only have yourself to blame. The guy offered you a fair trade and...CORRECTION...the guy offered you an EXCELLENT trade and you are pissed because you did not know your animals.


Example. I saw someone I know selling a classic jungle ball python for four hundred $400. i looked at the pictures and the descriptions. I then realized that I sold a couple of these same EXACT ball pythons for only $25 each. I only have myself to kick for it. I am NOT gonna blame the buyer for buying it from me at the price I asked for it within 15 minutes of it being posted. it is the price I put on the animals. it is the price agreed upon. it is not the other persons fault that I was stupid.