Chuck Tornetta - Big trade deal gone south

Im not upset about anything Gilbert. From your post I got the impression you were the expert advise Dallas has been talking about. Reread his posts talking about his "expert adivse" and reread yours with an open mind and see how it plays out. To me it looked as though he was taking your word as expert advise. Im not upset about anything I go through what you did on an almost daily basis. My pay little mind and dont spend any time on list just continues to grow thats all. But reading things the way I did I just had to laugh because you dont have any credibilty what so ever after what you did. If you were to tell me turkeys could fly I would have a hard time believing you. So from my stand point if you were his expert witness, advisor whatever he was seriously being miss guided.

As far as the blizzard through many talks with differant people I have heard it to ways. 1. albino X type 2 anery, which will stays perfectly white and not yellow as an adult 2. A snow that does not yellow up and stays white as an adult, from any anery X albino combination. While there is only one strain of albino in the snows out there now(Kahl) there are several strains of anerys out there. I know of atleast 3 proven anery strains from wild cuaght animals, one of which Chuck has. The thing I have always wonderd these differant anery strains are they compatable? In any evefnt considering there are several strains out there I dont think anyone truely knows how each strain will react with the albino gene. Some will yellow, as all the adult snows out there currently have proven some may not. To my knowledge only 6 or 7 people so far have even produce snows. So at this point no one has produce a definite blizzard and NO ONE truely knows what will make a blizzard, every being said is nothing but a educated guesses from other species.

The parts in bold are posted by Dallas.

First SPJ - How i advertise my snakes is my biz, not yours
Interesting. It is no ones business what you put in your ads. Then why were you making such a big deal that he advertised what you thought was your snake for 10,000?

I always am completely honest to the best of my ability in my adds.
Oh really? I will post the ad below. Check out the parts in bold

1.1 2003 unrelated coral albino pair!
MAINE
Posted by Dallas Quarles Reptiles (Contact Me!) on September 09, 2003 at 22:45:28
Registered PetHobbyist User since 2002-09-10



I recently did a huge trade deal that enabled me to acquire some animals that i need to part with to recoop some cash. I had a deal with a potential buyer but he failed to come up with the funds so they are up for sale. This is an unrelated pair of coral albinos that are very nice. The male especially is exceptional, SUPER color. The male was born in 5/03 and the female was born in 8/03. They are both doing very well and growing quickly. I cannot gurantee the female is a coral, however, the male is a coral and a grade A one at that. The female was sold to me as a coral buy Chuck for $2500 but the pic he sent me of a female was not the one i got in the mail and does not look as "coralish" as the one in the pic he sent me as an example. Well, if they are borderline coral/normal albino sometimes it is hard to tell if they are coral until they get older and "Coral Up" a bit. Either way, you are getting a heck of a deal because if this females ends up to be a true coral, you are getting way more than your money's worth. If not, you are still getting a great deal price wise. I am selling the pair for $3000 plus shipping to your door or by way of US Airways same day delivery to your nearest airport. I except cashiers checks only at this time. Buyer must send the cashiers check out express mail, which gurantees next day delivery. Live arrival is guranteed and so is the health of these animals. To see pics, click on my picture trail site below and email me with any questions you may have.

Thanks,
Dallas Quarles Reptiles

Home - 207-947-9233
Cell- 207-299-5303

Yeah it is really Chucks fault you wanted to make a quick buck

Chuck, look at our gurantee page. If you did not want a two day gurantee, you should not have agreed to it.
Likewise....if you do not like tha animals you should have returned them instead of selling them CHEAPLY to make a quick buck. It is all over ALL your ads. Priced low to make a quick sale.

If someone wants to give longer, that is fine. I make the rules wth MY animals so anyone can take it or leave it.
Likewise.....he can put any price on HIS animals. So you can take it or leave it. You took it.

I have NEVER had a single complaint about my animals. NEVER once has anyone gotten mites from me, resp problems, any sickness or death at all.
Nope... But you complain about how other peoples animals are NOT great and you complain about them.. Then you turn around and sell them as the best, exceptional, very nice...blah blah blah

Take better care of your animals and dont blame it on me.
let me see. The animals he sent you are healthy. The animal he got from you "supposedly" has a resp infection. But you are telling him to take care of his animals better. yeah

The only thing you did was immediatly remove that add, why? Curious. Could it maybe be because you did not want everyone to know you were selling a sick animal?
Oh...he deleted it? The same way you deleted the picture of the albino from your picture trail?

I will dig up the email and post it. I dont have all of them but i have some, the important ones.
An important e-mail would be the ones from all these big breeders who took time out of their day to tell you that you did not have a coral.

You are right, no one has produced a blizzard boa yet. So what is one, how can you say this is one? You tacked an extra $1k on to the price because you said it was a possibly blizzard boa,
One no one has produced one yet. (That we know of)
Two if his anery proves out to be a type 2....then you probably have the first ever blizzard boa.
Three. If you know it is not a blizzard.....Why did you put it in the ad that it could be?
I will post the ad below

1.0 2003 Exceptional SNOW Boa!
I have this baby snow boa born in July 2003. He is a very exceptional animal.He is very white and does not have the yellow that most baby snows do. I am moving to FL in a couple months so i have decided to sell off some animals to pay for the trip. This guy is eating F/T pinky rats with no problem and i can email you pics of him eating with the dates from my digital camera on the pics. He is a solid animal and a great feeder. He is in perfect condition, inside and out. I am selling him for $5,000 plus shipping. Please dont email me for trades unless you have Sharp Strain Albinos. If you would like him shipped to you by US Airways delivered same day, it will cost $80. If you want him shipped overnight, next day delivery, it will cost you $50. This is a great price considering the going price for male snows is a cool $5500. The only thing that could match it would be a Leucistic. Anyway, who knows if it will prove to be a Blizzard boa, only time will tell. All i can say is this is the nicest one i have seen, all white, no yellow like his siblings had. I wanted to shave $500 off the normal $5500 for a quick sell. Please go check out my picturetrail site too see pics of this animal. Email or call wtih any questions. Serious inquiries only please.

Buy the Female Pro Exotics has for sale and this unrelated Male and you will have yourself a killer pair!

I was just saying that Chuck gave his snow the label of Blizzard Boa with absolutely no proof at all and also lied about his source that gave snow its new found name "Blizzard Boa".
As I have already mentioned. If his anery proves out to be a type 2. OR an anery that does not have ANY yellow. Then you are one of the first to own such a boa. The name Blizzard is tricky. While it is true it does not really exist YET. It is almost agreed upon by the breeders that the snow boa that does not turn yellow as it ages will be coined blizzard boa. (This part you would know if you had connections with the elite or if you are the elite) With all these elite people e-mailing you.....you should know about the blizzard. You should also know the little dark secrets or great secrets about some of the morphs out there.

Also, i recieved a normal albino female, not a coral albino female like i was supposed to recieve
You are sure it was not a coral.......but in your ads you put that it can possibly "coral out"

Chuck refused to return my emails and this just angered me.
So instead of coming to the BOI and posting about Chuck. Instead of posting "hey chuck contact me or I will post about our bad deal"....you instead sold the animals.

So at least i know my self respect is still in tact
Self respect?
you can say you have self respect......when you have proven time and time again that you will complain about the animals and then turn around and sell them as the best and exceptional.

Chuck knows the facts. That is it. All the rest of you are just guessing.
Well we would not be guessing if you actually read people's posts and answer their questions. Instead you dance around all the hard questions.

1. What happened to all these e-mails you say you had?
2. What happened to Chucks ad you say you had?
3. Why is that coral on an orange looking newspaper?
4. What happened to the picture of the albino that was there yesterday?
5. Why did you all of a sudden decide to delete it?
6. Why did you all of a sudden delete all your ads that make you look GUILTY.
7. why did you not return the animals if you were not happy with them?
8. Why did you sell the animals if you were not happy with them?
9. Why did you sell the animals and then post? Why did you not post first? You were so unhappy with the animals that you posted them as exceptional about nine days after you received them.
10. If they are not blizzard.....why did you post them TODAY as poss blizzard?
11. If they were not coral.....why did you post them as coral
12 you say the female is not as "coralish". Are you then saying that it looks coral but not as coral as the male?
13. Are you not answering these questions because you feel everyone is ganging up on you? Or are you not answering these questions because you know I see right through you and somehow am getting closer to the TRUTH?
[/b]

You say I do not look at facts.
I bleieve my questions are trying to get some facts.
But I know you won't answer them.....because you know that you messed up again.
You claim everyone is ganging up on you... so you do not answer the questions.

Thanks very much Chuck for explaining it to me and for not being offended by my question. I appreciate it. It's always great to learn new things. Evan

WITHOUT KNOWING OR EVER DEALING W/EITHER PARTY ,ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS,MAN O MAN THE SITUATIONS PEOPLE GET THEMSELVES INTO, ,TOO FUNNY,,,,,HEY DALLAS SOME FRIENDLY ADVISE SAVE FACE,,APOLIGIZE!,,BE A MAN -MOVE ON,JUST AN OPINION,,,,,THOMAS DAVIS ,T&S REPTILE FARM

I have read over the thread and might have missed this but I was wondering...How can someone tell a coral from a regular albino? apparantly it seems that some people just have a gift and some sort of sixth sense about it and can identify a totally normal in appearance coral from a totally normal in appearance NORMAL albino. And if this is not the case why is everyone slamming Dallas on this thread about him selling off the obviously normal albino (appearance wise) and telling him he is wrong to say it was a normal albino, but then turning around and saying Chuck didn't send a normal (in appearance) albino? It just doesn't make any sense to me..

I am not taking sides, just wondering why it seems that everyone else is?
(I personally think they ended up with an even trade value wise, but Dallas was selling his animals and had them advertised no trades at all, Chuck managed to offer a trade that was good enough to change Dallas' mind, and Chuck did not deliver on his end of the deal) and yes I know alot of he said she said has gone back and forth, but I haven't noticed any proof on either side disputing the other, or confirming there own comments.


Well that is just my opinion, I am sure someone will complain about it, but oh well what else is it good for other then entertainment.

Later Randy T. aka Randall Turner.

Randy , You make some valid points. I know that I , like many others if they actually think about it would not be happy bing in Dallas' shoes. I wasn't going to post, just keep reading but I feel like this should be said

If someone has something in the for sale section for 100 dollars..it costs 100 dollars

a lot of posts say forsale/trade in which cases the item is 100 dollars, or 150 trade value

and still others say for sale only , but with the right deal... lets say 300 in trades is made the seller might jump on it.

I think that if some think "Well, you got 150, and were only asking 100, stop whining" that they are wrong. A person who is set in their ways, and only wants to sell would not be tempted by the deal, otherwise they would have said that in the ad. Dallas was willing to trade, for the value of over 12,000, which seems steep, but thats what was agreed upon. Keep in mind, he didn't go looking for a trade, the trade came to him. What he got was sub-par, he was not happy, and posted here. Thats what the BOI is for. He shared, some learned, some attacked. I think there should maybe be 4-6 people posting here on this thread . The 2 involved, and maybe a couple witnesses from each side. Everything else that has nothing to do with this, other than people wanting to say "Look what i can do!", including my post, is of little or no value.

They actualy corals are coming out of certain lines. As far as I know there is only three or four breeding them now. I have 3 here now one is just awesome anyone could look at it and see what it is. It almost looks like a sharp it has so much orange and pink in it. Ive taken a couple pics of it with one of the others the others come out bleached white because of the flash and this one has a orange/pink haze around it in the photos. The other male I have looks more like a normal albino however does have some of the color coming in. I think it will be a nice adult not as outstanding as the other but nice. The female has had a couple feeding problems and is smaller then the males so she isnt showing any color change yet. I am sure she will. None of these came from Chuck. Now, The ones I seen last year that I watched grow from neonates to about 24-30 inches started out looking like normal albinos. My buddy kept telling me that they were colors and Id see the differance in time at first I laughed. 3 months down the raod these animals had some really nice pink in them. There sides started getting this nice pink speckling all through them. In time most of the animals from this litter had this orange/pink tint to them all over and there sides had this extremly bright pink speckiling. Thats about the best I can describe a coral, its just something you have to see. Now there were some that didnt "coral" up as much. They just had some pink speckling and alot of white and to the normal person I think would have been passed off as a normal albino, like what is going on here. Now these ones that didnt coral up as much to me still apeared to have more of this corally color then did normal albinos and to me looked differant at 6-8months of age. Due to the limited numbers they are being produced I dont think anyone really undertands exactly what is going on. Just that some lines throw them and some dont. IMO I would tend to think from my understanding(as limited as it may be) of genetics that every baby within a "coral" litter will throw corals when bred to another albino from a coral line. I believ Dallas albino ws in fact a coral and if the colors hadnt started to show when he had it they would have down the road. However Dallas only had them for a few days listed them and sold them. So he was lucky to get a single meal in those animals much less have them through a shed and see how the developed.

I think that if some think "Well, you got 150, and were only asking 100, stop whining" that they are wrong.

Thats not at all the case, the facts are Dallas sold some of them prior to ever notifying Chuck of any unhappiness with the deal. I seen Dallases origanal ads for these animals and the thing that baffles me the most is, NEVER, NEVER did he list them at the trade prices. His forst ads for the corals were WAY below the $2500 trade value. So I am still at a lose for what he is pissed about its not at all like he listed them at the trade value and 3months later they still hadnt sold them so he had to bring the prices down to move them. He simply never listed them as high as the trade value.

I am selling the pair for $3000 plus shipping to your door or by way of US Airways same day delivery to your nearest airport.

Right there is his starting price copied and pasted from his first ad. His starting price was $1000ea or $2000 for the pair less then his trade value the ONLY person he has any right to be mad at for selling them less then they were worth is himself for hitting the 3 button instead of the 5 button when placing his first ad concerning the pair in question. I noticed from ALL his other ads he seems to subtract by one of the first digit. The poss hets snows I think the trae value was $600 his strating price was $500. The snow was $6500 his starting price was $5500. It seems like he just subtracts one of the first digit of every value.

In any event Davey and Randy, Never once did Dallas atempt to reverse the deal. Never once did he say "hey this isnt what I was gaurneteed so I am sending these back and you return my SS ALbinos" he took them and listed them, sold some then got pissed because HE prced the corals at $2000 less then their value. Dallas did that in his first ad. So that is his own fault that they sold imediatly at less then what he wanted. If he wanted the $2500 ea $5000pr for them that was his trade value, he should have listed them art that not at the $3000 a pr price that he did. So maybe that is the point you guys are missing. Also only have them animals for the short time he did maybe there true colors never shown. Have you ever had an animals that had some awesome bright color but understess would turn drab and darker then normal. I had a dbl het ghost boa this year(hypo het anery, I still have another pr of dbl hets, they were from Will SLoughs line, by far the best on the country) when it was here at the house had this AWESOME stone washed pink color to it, by far one of the best looking hypos I have EVER laid eyes on. I would take it to a show and that pink stone washed color it had that made it so awesome would fade and it would look like a normal run of the mill hypo. Bring it home after a few days that thing looked AWESOME again. So that could also be the case with this female here she may not have been as bright to begin with but what bright "corally" colors she had faded due to stress and Dallas quickly turning the animals over he didnt have her long enough to settle in. I think they were sold within 7 days of arrival? which isnt enough time to know ANYTHING about the animals. as far as the snow in dallases words

a very exceptional animal.He is very white anddoes not have the yellow that most baby snows do

i.e. making him a possible blizzard, if he stays that white and the yellow does not come in someday whom ever owns him will have to change the label from a possible blizzard to an actual blizzard.

Anyway Davey I agree with your example of the $100 cash to $150 trade deal. However I do not believe its the cse here considering what I have said above. I feel dalls had his 12five worth and blew it all on his own.

I think that if the "coral " in question wasn't showing color at the time it was traded then it should have ,at best, been labeled "possible coral". Since a litter can contain both normals albinos and corals, and the one we are talking about here apeared normal at time of trade, you can not 100% possitively call it a coral and give it 2000+ value, unless all of the normal looking albinos in the litter were sold for that price, but then the for sure coral would have been more.

My discussion is based off of what Dallas placed within his for sale ads nothing more here he plainly states it is a coral pair.

. This is an unrelated pair of coral albinos that are very nice.

on more then one occasion he has refered to her as a coral. He claims he has already delted the pics of her, oh how convient. Considering he says he knows for a fact the snow is not a blizzard or even a possible and posted that last night. then first thing this morning posted posted for sale ads with it as possible and keeps throwing the blizzard term around within his ads as an advertisement plo I have a hard time believeing anything he says without proof. On here he swaer the coral is not a coral and the possible blizzard snow is in no way a possible blizzard but in his for sale ads on ksnake he claims they are corals and possible blizzards. he claims using those terms chuck missrepresented the animals, but for some reason it ok for him to do the same, according to him his ads are none of our buisness. Dallas has not shown any proof to prove anything at all so for all we know that female coral could have been the most smoken coral in the world and he made all this up. Considering his double standard I have a hard time believeing anything he says. He is his own worst enemy and the only one to blaim

Randy,
Lets say he was supposed to receive a coral.
But chuck sent him an normal albino
then he turned around and sold it as a normal albino.

1. chuck is wrong for sending hiim a normal albino


here is where the problem is.


Chuck sent him a coral albino
Dallas came here to say it was nothing more than a normal albino....and he got ripped.
Then Dallas puts ads up suggesting that it would most likely turn coral.

In his ads he says it is not as "coralish"..........meaning it DOES look coral......but not as coral as the male or any other coral.
he also goes further to say that it will probably turn coral.


so my problem is....
1. do not complain that it is ABSOLUTELY NOT a coral. Then turn around to sell it as possible coral
2. Do not complain that it is definately not a blizzard..... then turn around and sell it as a possible blizzard
3. Once again he is complaining about sub par animals he receives......then turns around and sells them as if they were the best thing that has ever happened to mankind. (he has done this multiple times)