Bad Guy Chris McVicar and Randy from New Shed Serpents in OKC, OK - FaunaClassifieds
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Old 12-07-2009, 11:47 PM   #1
kellymack515
Chris McVicar and Randy from New Shed Serpents in OKC, OK

This is my first posting here so if this isn't in the correct format, please forgive me.

I purchased a female type II anery Nic for $200 from these guys a few months ago. They were really nice and allowed me to make payments. I saw the Nic before I bought her and while she didn't quite look like the type II Nics I'd seen before, I went ahead and purchased her. I quarantined her and didn't handle her for a few weeks. I then took her to be dewormed at my vet and when I brought her out of the bag I was surprised to see a lot of color on her. My vet confirmed that she was NOT anery. I called Chris to talk to him about the situation. He later stated that he doesn't know much about much about type II Nics. At the time he gave me two choices: I could either get a full refund or they would give me an anery boa and a DH ghost boa. I would be able to keep the Nic either way. I chose the babies and picked them up from Randy. Shortly after I got them I noticed mites. Not a huge deal - it happens. They were in quarantine and I treated them. About a week after I got them, the DH ghost started open-mouth breathing and I noticed some yellowing of the gums. To make a long story short, she had stomatitis and she refused traditional f/t feeding. She was deteriorating rapidly so I did not feel comfortable trying live. She had a total of four vet visits, two of which included her being tube-fed. In three weeks she lost almost half of her body weight. She died one day shy of being with me for 6 weeks. The anery regurgitated fuzzies twice but has been able to hold down pinkies for me. He is also infested with mites and will be going in for his third vet visit tomorrow. We did a necropsy on the female and the initial COD is loss of organ function due to severe anemia. I will be sending tissue samples off for histopathology after the holidays but at this juncture I'm blaming the mites. I contacted Chris two days after the DH ghost died. He said that he'd have to talk to Randy to decide what to refund me. He also commented on how he had noticed the mites on the baby boas. After not hearing from him for a few days, I contacted him again. He basically said that the snakes that I currently have are worth more than what I paid so if I want a refund, I should give him back the snakes. He claims he can get the anery better. If the snakes he gave me were healthy, then yes they would be worth quite a bit. But sick snakes have no monetary worth. He also played the blame game. Claiming that the problem was that I was feeding f/t, not live like they were. In the end, I chose to keep the snakes even though the outlook on the anery is bleak right now. To sum the situation up:

1. He sold me a morph boa that turned out to be a normal then stated that he didn't know much about that type of snake.
2. As opposed to a refund, he gave me sick snakes. Snakes which he stated that he knew had mites, once I called him about the DH ghost's death.
3. Even though I'd invested time and money into the snakes I'd received from him, he demanded them back if I wanted a refund stating that they were worth more than what I'd paid despite the fact that one was misrepresented, one is sick, and one is dead.
4. I have had to initiate most of the contact myself when he said he would be contacting me. I felt avoided.
 
Old 12-08-2009, 12:07 AM   #2
kmrkvicka
As someone who has sold Kelly snakes in the past, I can assure you that she is a responsible, active owner, who wants what is best for her snakes. I had a pleasure working with her, and is not someone who is quick to make a situation out of nothing. These snakes were an exciting new purchase that ended horribly, and I am ashamed that there are breeders out there with this sort of ethic
 
Old 12-08-2009, 09:28 AM   #3
MikeCurtin
Please post any e-mails you have to show a timeline. Has the seller been notified of this thread?
 
Old 12-08-2009, 09:51 AM   #4
kellymack515
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmrkvicka View Post
As someone who has sold Kelly snakes in the past, I can assure you that she is a responsible, active owner, who wants what is best for her snakes. I had a pleasure working with her, and is not someone who is quick to make a situation out of nothing. These snakes were an exciting new purchase that ended horribly, and I am ashamed that there are breeders out there with this sort of ethic
Thank you Katie. That means a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeCurtin View Post
Please post any e-mails you have to show a timeline. Has the seller been notified of this thread?
Unfortunately a vast majority of contact was in person, over the phone, or through text messages. Once I felt that this was going to turn out poorly, I initiated all contact through text so I could have things in writing. I know better for future dealings now.
 
Old 12-08-2009, 10:25 AM   #5
SnakeEyesExotics
Kelly,

I am sorry to hear about your bad business dealings with these people and the unfortunate ending for one of your babies. However, I am a bit confused. According to your post, you had the type II anery in quarantine for a few weeks and then took her to the vet and stated that you were surprised she had so much color. Did you not look her over when you received her or sometime throughout the few weeks you had her? It just sounded like you were shocked that all of a sudden she had so much color. Then, after you accepted the two additional babies and went to pick them up, you stated that shortly after you got them you noticed mites. Once again, did you not look them over right away? When you were still at his place and before you decided to accept them? That just doesn't make sense to me, especially after his past dealing with you.

Another thing that I guess I don't understand is the amount of vet visits in the short time that you had the DH ghost. If she was in as poor condition as you state and had the stomatitis, I could understand an initial vet visit for treatment and medication. But four vet visits, two of which included tube feedings within under six weeks seems excessive and unfortunately may have contributed to her demise. The vet visits and especially the tube feedings are extremely stressful for a young boa. I don't feel that force feeding a boa that was already sickly was the best solution for the animal.

Now, it was horribly wrong of Chris to sell you boas that he knew were infested with mites. That tells me that he doesn't give a hoot about his snakes or his customers, it's just all about the money he can make. The snakes' problems are in no way caused by you feeding F/T instead of live, they are due to him being a sorry excuse for a businessman and snake keeper.

I agree with Mike, please post the emails that show your correspondence with this character. That will give you a lot of credibility here.


Anya Hogan
 
Old 12-08-2009, 10:41 AM   #6
jbt123
Quote:
Originally Posted by russianbaby007 View Post
Kelly,

I am sorry to hear about your bad business dealings with these people and the unfortunate ending for one of your babies. However, I am a bit confused. According to your post, you had the type II anery in quarantine for a few weeks and then took her to the vet and stated that you were surprised she had so much color. Did you not look her over when you received her or sometime throughout the few weeks you had her? It just sounded like you were shocked that all of a sudden she had so much color. Then, after you accepted the two additional babies and went to pick them up, you stated that shortly after you got them you noticed mites. Once again, did you not look them over right away? When you were still at his place and before you decided to accept them? That just doesn't make sense to me, especially after his past dealing with you.

Another thing that I guess I don't understand is the amount of vet visits in the short time that you had the DH ghost. If she was in as poor condition as you state and had the stomatitis, I could understand an initial vet visit for treatment and medication. But four vet visits, two of which included tube feedings within under six weeks seems excessive and unfortunately may have contributed to her demise. The vet visits and especially the tube feedings are extremely stressful for a young boa. I don't feel that force feeding a boa that was already sickly was the best solution for the animal.

Now, it was horribly wrong of Chris to sell you boas that he knew were infested with mites. That tells me that he doesn't give a hoot about his snakes or his customers, it's just all about the money he can make. The snakes' problems are in no way caused by you feeding F/T instead of live, they are due to him being a sorry excuse for a businessman and snake keeper.

I agree with Mike, please post the emails that show your correspondence with this character. That will give you a lot of credibility here.


Anya Hogan
Kelly, I am deeply sorry for your loss.

As a long-time friend of Kelly, I know how good of a caretaker she is for her animals. I have personally adopted out 2 of my baby boas that were born with physical defects, and she cares for them like her own children.

Kelly did whatever she could to make Sally survive. Whether the vet visits were too stressful and caused her demise is up to argument, but I honestly would have done the same thing instead of just letting the animal suffer. She did the right thing.

I hope that Jack makes it.

-Justyne Dickson
 
Old 12-08-2009, 10:46 AM   #7
kellymack515
Quote:
Originally Posted by russianbaby007 View Post
Kelly,

I am sorry to hear about your bad business dealings with these people and the unfortunate ending for one of your babies. However, I am a bit confused. According to your post, you had the type II anery in quarantine for a few weeks and then took her to the vet and stated that you were surprised she had so much color. Did you not look her over when you received her or sometime throughout the few weeks you had her? It just sounded like you were shocked that all of a sudden she had so much color. Then, after you accepted the two additional babies and went to pick them up, you stated that shortly after you got them you noticed mites. Once again, did you not look them over right away? When you were still at his place and before you decided to accept them? That just doesn't make sense to me, especially after his past dealing with you.

Another thing that I guess I don't understand is the amount of vet visits in the short time that you had the DH ghost. If she was in as poor condition as you state and had the stomatitis, I could understand an initial vet visit for treatment and medication. But four vet visits, two of which included tube feedings within under six weeks seems excessive and unfortunately may have contributed to her demise. The vet visits and especially the tube feedings are extremely stressful for a young boa. I don't feel that force feeding a boa that was already sickly was the best solution for the animal.

Now, it was horribly wrong of Chris to sell you boas that he knew were infested with mites. That tells me that he doesn't give a hoot about his snakes or his customers, it's just all about the money he can make. The snakes' problems are in no way caused by you feeding F/T instead of live, they are due to him being a sorry excuse for a businessman and snake keeper.

I agree with Mike, please post the emails that show your correspondence with this character. That will give you a lot of credibility here.


Anya Hogan
Thank you for your reply Anya. Hopefully I can clarify a few things.

I'd checked on the Nic multiple times after I got her but she was always hiding behind her water bowl and I didn't want to stress her out by messing with her. She was in a distinct dark phase when I got her and had significantly lightened up in the two weeks I had to wait to take her to be dewormed (my vet was on vacation). She still doesn't have much color. She's an incredibly dark Nic. But my quarantine is in the closet in my bedroom so it's always dark in there anyway (I use a red bulb so I don't disturb the snakes and rarely bring a lamp in). Once I had her out and under the spotlight at the vet, I noticed the color. She has very pale pink cheeks and a bit of orange on her belly. Her back is still mostly black and gray. The color still isn't fully evident just by looking at her but it *is* there.

I did inspect the babies initially and they went to the vet the day I got them. There was one mite evident at that time and both were treated for them. I was trying to give Chris and Randy the benefit of the doubt. As I said, the Nic's color was barely visible. She fooled me at first as well.

As for the multiple vet visits... I take every new snake I get to my vet immediately to be dewormed. Her first vet visit was the day I got her. The second was for the stomatitis and to start her on Baytril (approximately ten days later). The third visit was for tube-feeding which was three weeks after the second visit. As I said, she'd lost over half of her body weight in three weeks and I was worried that she wouldn't have the strength to fight the infection. We also treated her for mites again as they were still present. The fourth visit was a week after that. I took her in for tube-feeding again and to see about putting her on another medication. We started Agrimycin that day but she passed the next morning. I know it was a lot of visits but I was desperate. I'd come home to find her draped over her water dish with her head hanging limply to the side. She never moved. I was terrified.

As I said, I don't have any emails unfortunately. I'd be more than happy to copy the text messages but I'm not sure they'd contribute as much to credibility.
 
Old 12-08-2009, 12:17 PM   #8
KingBowser
Hmm, I've never heard of these guys and here I thought I was "in the know" with local herp people. Where in OKC are they located?
 
Old 12-08-2009, 12:51 PM   #9
SnakeEyesExotics
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbt123 View Post
Kelly, I am deeply sorry for your loss.

As a long-time friend of Kelly, I know how good of a caretaker she is for her animals. I have personally adopted out 2 of my baby boas that were born with physical defects, and she cares for them like her own children.

Kelly did whatever she could to make Sally survive. Whether the vet visits were too stressful and caused her demise is up to argument, but I honestly would have done the same thing instead of just letting the animal suffer. She did the right thing.

I hope that Jack makes it.

-Justyne Dickson

I am in no way stating that I blame Kelly for doing what she did, as she felt that it was the right thing to do in her circumstances. It is hard to sit back and watch an animal perish, and it is not right to do nothing, but at the same time too much intervention can often do more harm than good as well. I simply feel that the animal was stressed out far beyond its ability to cope with the stress, partially due to all the vet visits, and that is what contributed to its passing. I am sure that the major causes were the health problems and mites.

Anya Hogan
 
Old 12-08-2009, 01:03 PM   #10
SnakeEyesExotics
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellymack515 View Post
Thank you for your reply Anya. Hopefully I can clarify a few things.

I'd checked on the Nic multiple times after I got her but she was always hiding behind her water bowl and I didn't want to stress her out by messing with her. She was in a distinct dark phase when I got her and had significantly lightened up in the two weeks I had to wait to take her to be dewormed (my vet was on vacation). She still doesn't have much color. She's an incredibly dark Nic. But my quarantine is in the closet in my bedroom so it's always dark in there anyway (I use a red bulb so I don't disturb the snakes and rarely bring a lamp in). Once I had her out and under the spotlight at the vet, I noticed the color. She has very pale pink cheeks and a bit of orange on her belly. Her back is still mostly black and gray. The color still isn't fully evident just by looking at her but it *is* there.

I did inspect the babies initially and they went to the vet the day I got them. There was one mite evident at that time and both were treated for them. I was trying to give Chris and Randy the benefit of the doubt. As I said, the Nic's color was barely visible. She fooled me at first as well.

As for the multiple vet visits... I take every new snake I get to my vet immediately to be dewormed. Her first vet visit was the day I got her. The second was for the stomatitis and to start her on Baytril (approximately ten days later). The third visit was for tube-feeding which was three weeks after the second visit. As I said, she'd lost over half of her body weight in three weeks and I was worried that she wouldn't have the strength to fight the infection. We also treated her for mites again as they were still present. The fourth visit was a week after that. I took her in for tube-feeding again and to see about putting her on another medication. We started Agrimycin that day but she passed the next morning. I know it was a lot of visits but I was desperate. I'd come home to find her draped over her water dish with her head hanging limply to the side. She never moved. I was terrified.

As I said, I don't have any emails unfortunately. I'd be more than happy to copy the text messages but I'm not sure they'd contribute as much to credibility.

Kelly,

It was wrong of them to advertise her as an Anery if she in fact was not, but part of the blame also falls on you. I am not trying to be harsh, but you stated that you had a chance to see the animal before purchasing her. This means that you knew what she looked like, and agreed to proceed with the sale. I feel that you could have done more research on what a type II anery is supposed to look like so you would not be fooled by their claims. You had a huge benefit by actually being able to see the animals in person before proceeding with any sales, most people don't have that opportunity because they buy animals online. I think that a closer and more detailed inspection is definitely in order for any future animals you may obtain from these people. Personally, I would tell them to take their sickly and misrepresented animals back and give you a refund, then never do business with them again.

Anya Hogan
 

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