(Super) Hypo Tangerine = co-dominant?

Hi,

I have a Super Hypo Tangerine (Carrottail) female. She is Ray Hine Line. Pairing her with my Wild caught normal male, I get Super Hypo- or Hypo Tangerine Babies.
So what I’m thinking about:
Is the Super Hypo Gen co-dominant?
Or do I just get 100% Hypo offspring, because the Hypo Tangerine trait is a line-breed-trait….so the “Super Hypo” mixes with the “normal”?

The Babies I get from pairing Normal x Super Hypo Tangerine have some more spots with more intensive black, than the mother. I’ve never paired the offspring back together, to see, if I would get some Babies which look similar to the mother.
But I’ve some ’03-holdbacks, pairing with a High Yellow male this season. If the gen is co-dominant, I’ve to get 50% normal looking and 50% Babies that look similar to the holdbacks, right?
And if it is not co-dominant, all the babies have to be a mix of High Yellow and Hypo Tangerine, right?

Here is a picture I took last year with the ’03 holdbacks, a ’04 Baby and the Super Hypo Tangerine (Carrottail faded with breeding) female:

that's the normal male:

Sorry for my bad English…I hope you all understand what I mean.

So what do you think? Co-dominant or not?

THX, rhac

Hello,

I believe the Ray Hine line super hypos to be co dominant. I believe the "super" form can only be proven out by breeding to a normal, if you get all super hypos then you know it's a "super".

BTW, those leos look remarkably like what people in the US are marketing as "ghosts". Just for the record though, a ghost is a Hine line super hypo without the tang.

Originally Posted by KelliH

Hello,

I believe the Ray Hine line super hypos to be co dominant. I believe the "super" from can only be proven out by breeding to a normal, if you get all super hypos then you know it's a "super".

Ok now I am confused. If it is a co-dominant then that means that the super form would be homozygus for the gene. So a Super Hypo would be homozygus and a Hypo would be hetrozygus. Therefor his SHTCT bred to a wild/normal would produce 100% Hypos not Super Hypos. From strictly a genetics side it is very curious that he was able to get Super Hypos out of this pairing.

~Jeff C.

Hypos not Super Hypos

I think the terms "super hypo" and "hypo" have different meanings for some. So I'll clear it up if I can.

All of the geckos in Rhac's first pic are super hypo (IMO). They have no spots or minimal spotting on the back.

When Ray Hine first marketed his line, he didn't call them "super hypos", he called them "hypos". But as we all know, names change and people began calling them super hypos.

Here is what I have discovered in my years of breeding the Ray Hine line super hypos:
+Breed a Super Hypo to a wild type/non super hypo and you get about 1/2 super hypos

+Breed a Super Hypo to another Super Hypo and you get all Super Hypos

+Some of the Super Hypos I have produced appear to be the "super" form of the co-dom because when these animals are bred to a wild type/non super hypo, 100% of the babies are super hypos

+Apparantly you cannot tell by looking at the gecko if it is a "super" Super Hypo or not

I can't think of anything else right now LOL. Sorry for the long post.

Originally Posted by KelliH

I think the terms "super hypo" and "hypo" have different meanings for some. So I'll clear it up if I can.

All of the geckos in Rhac's first pic are super hypo (IMO). They have no spots or minimal spotting on the back.

Thanks for clearing that up for me Kelli. I do agree that by todays standards/definitions that all of Rhac's first photo would be what are being sold as Super Hypos. From your breeding experiences that you listed though I am not so sure that the Ray Hine's Hypo line is a co-dominant line. This observation is strictly from a genetics standpoint. I say this because there does not seem to be any clear cut differences between the Homozygous form and the Heterozygous form.

Disclaimer: I have yet to work/breed any of these animals myself and am basing these comments solely on my observations of other's posts.

~Jeff C.

hypo x hypo and you should get all hypos but of varying degrees and one of those could be a true super hypo i for got the percentage

when working with the codominant ray hines hypo carrot tail trait...

a hypo X hypo will produce normals as well.

youll get 1/4 normals, 1/4 supers, and 1/2 hypos.

super hypo to super hypo all super hypos.

super hypo X hypo 50% supers 50% hypos

super hypo X normal 100% hypos

hypo X normal 50% hypos, 50% normal

keep in mind these are not set in stone. you are not guarenteed any of these numbers. its like flipping a coin. if you flip it 10 times you may get more heads than tails or vice versa. but if you flip it 100 times you will get roughly 50/50.

BTW, those leos look remarkably like what people in the US are marketing as "ghosts". Just for the record though, a ghost is a Hine line super hypo without the tang.

is it really neccessarily a super hypo? couldnt it be heterozygous for ray hines hypo?

also a "ghost" is just a ray hines hypo than im still confused why people sell them as "ghosts"...

we have:

tangerines: hypo looking animals with a respectable amount of orange selectively bred into them.

linebred hypos: tend to resemble hypos AND tangerines from selectively breeding animals with less spotting and more tangerine. these are sorted using a spot counting method. less than 10 spots on the body (tail and head spots are not included) qualifing the leopard gecko as a line bred "hypo". Zero body spots qualifiying it as a linebred "super hypo".

pastels: im really starting to wonder if this is an actual morph that just never got the respect it deserved. muted pastel colors (mostly yellow) with less spotting and patches of lavendar. i like them, personally.

ray hines hypo: a codominant (or possibly incomplete dominant) morph that appears to "erase" melanin as the neonate reaches maturity. a vanishing pattern hypo, if you will. a heterozygous variant with this trait present will typically have more pattern as they reach maturity when compared to a homozygous ray hines hypo. a homozygous codominat animal is commonly refered to as a "super" in the reptile world (i.g. "super" salmon, "super" spider, "super" snow).

high yellow: hyperxanthic. doubltful this is even a mutation. probably a linebred normal with fewer spots and more yellow. ive never worked with these but thats what ive gathered.

SHTCT: super hypo tangerine. the result of combining tangerines with the ray hines carrotail hypo. breeding a tangerine to a super hypo ray hines carrot tail would result in all hypo tangerine carrot tails. breeding two hypo tangerine carrot tails (preferable selectively bred for tangerine and long full carrot tails) will produce some Super Hypo Tangerine Carrot Tails (approximately 1/4). these must display a high level of tangerine coloration to qualify otherwise they are simply SHCT (Super Hypo Carrot Tails).

ghost: once again im dumbfounded. apparently a ghost is a hypo carrot tail. thats all. a ray hines hypo carrot tail without the introduction of line bred tangerine blood (or backcrossed to a normal animal) with a different name. at least that seems to be the popular opinion (and the results of Rhacs breeding).

so as a result we have 5 different hypos (tang, line bred hypo, pastel, ray hines hypo and high yellow) in leopard geckos. than we have the combination of tang to ray hines, and apparently a second name for the ray hines hypo. pretty confusing.

Pairing her with my Wild caught normal male, I get Super Hypo- or Hypo Tangerine Babies.

you said you got a wild caught leopard gecko... where did you catch/receive it?

a hypo X hypo will produce normals as well.

I don't think I have EVER produced a normal from a SHCT X SHCT breeding. And I've bred a lot of them.

is it really neccessarily a super hypo? couldnt it be heterozygous for ray hines hypo?

No.. the ghosts are Ray Hine Super Hypos that have not been selectively bred for color.

also a "ghost" is just a ray hines hypo than im still confused why people sell them as "ghosts"...

That is the name that someone came up with to market them as. Just like the patternless used to be called "leucistic" when we all know it isn't really a leucistic.

a heterozygous variant with this trait present will typically have more pattern as they reach maturity when compared to a homozygous ray hines hypo.

Ok.. this is interesting. Can you please show us a picture of a "het" Ray Hine Hypo? I've been working with this line for years and I am just not following you here.

one more thing...

rhac, your actually reverse linebreeding. youre losing all that great orange color from the urban line by breding it to normals and high yellows. at this rate your holdbacks will never resemble thier urban line parentage.

that urban gecko is beautiful. great color and a nice carrottail. something like that would be worth upwards of 250 american dollars (198.22 in EUROS) in america. the offspring however would have a hard time fetching 100 dollars.

by breeding an urban line SHTCT to a normal you lose the vivid coloration and a good amount of carrottail (not to mention the color of it).

i dunno...just my thoughts on it.

perhaps he is more interested in the genetics rather than the money?

implying i like beautiful orange geckos just because they are worth more? okay robin... whatever.

they are worth more because they are MORE BEAUTIFUL.

he is from europe you dork... germany to be exact... some countries are still getting in WC's.

okay cause fauna export from india is against indias regulations and theres chaos everywhere else they come from (the middle east). so i was just wondering how a guy from germany gets his hands on a wild caught leopard gecko. ive never been to europe so i wouldnt knowe what they have in the realm of wild caught specimen availablity. it was a simple question that was directed to HIM and there was no need for you to call me a "dork".

wake up. drink some coffee, crap out your cajun food and and stop with the name calling!

also that quote you posted of mine was already exoplained.

sorry i was too busy responding to this thread to notice.

jeff,
that must have been REALLY cool to be able to pick from all those wild caughts!!! i found your post very informative. thank you.