Chenzo Caci - jungleexotics@yahoo.com - BAD GUY!

Reputations, good or bad, are earned, not handed out. Steve has earned his good reputation, so why wouldn't we trust what he's saying, especially when he presents proof?

Reverse the roles, yeah right.

Originally Posted by JudyC

Here's a flaw in your premise from the start. If the roles were reversed, the situation would not be the same. Every single person has the ability to build up "credibility credit" so to speak. This is done through long-term reptuation and/or by presenting their story in a calm, professional manner. Steve has a great deal of "credit" because folks already know him and he's proven himself to be a stand-up guy. We can be pretty darned sure he's not going make up stories and go to all this trouble just for a few dollars or a bit of attention.

If a stranger comes on and starts a thread about a bad deal and posts pictures of the snake with mites and ticks...sure, he may be scrutinized a bit more, but not unreasonably so. If this person maintains their cool and responds in a professional manner with half-way decent communication skills, people ARE willing to listen and will want to wait to hear the other side of the story. I've seen it time and time again...LOTS of times where the "newbie" is trusted until they give a reason they can't be trusted.

The fact that the seller refused to come on here and give his side of the story says a lot. The fact that he would upload a youtube video ranting about his side of the story without giving ANYone a chance to rebut or refute him also says a tremendous amount.

Sure...some folks here are given more "benefit of the doubt" than others....but that's because they've EARNED it...not because of some arbitrary double standard.

Don't forget creating a second account to give himself good feedback

Originally Posted by SPJ

OK. I tried responding at lunch but it bombed on my cell so I will try again now that I am home.

Regarding the mites. Black flecks in the pattern does not crawl or fall off when the snake is soaked. These were mites. I treated this snake for 4 days before he was shipped back. Soaked and I sprayed down the temp enclosure with Provent a Mite. I think I got them all which explains why this guy can't find any when he got it back.
Regarding the ticks. I removed 2 ticks from this animal. There may be even more but I only saw and removed 2.
Regarding the RI. This snake never fully closed it's mouth while here. It was wheezing and bubbling from the mouth. When I picked it up for a closer inspection, it sneezed, wheezed, coughed, whatever you want to call it and mucus flew out of it's mouth (which was disgusting to clean up BTW). I cleaned that up and the snake and jacked up the temps.
Was I unprofessional in the emails and didn't allow him a chance to explain himself? OK. Yes I was. I was furious when I saw the condition of this snake. I paid for a tame, healthy, f/t rat eating BP that was a loving pet for 5 years. What I got was nowhere near the original description. I did not give him a chance to explain himself because IMO there should be nothing to explain. This animal should never have been put up for sale or shipped in this condition.
Now on to the freezer comment. Not knowing what I was delaing with (was it highly contagious, was it airborne, could I transmit it unknowingly to my other animals?) I felt that normal QT practices were not enough and if he was not going to take it back ASAP, I would have to put it down. Over the years, I have seen to many people lose entire collections from one sick snake. I was not going to let that happen. I would rather put this one down than watch the others die. Based upon the condition of the snake and the lack of honesty from the seller (I lovingly cared for this for 5 years, I'm going to make a fake account to let people know what a good guy I am, I am going to blame the condition on the cypress mulch or the time in transit, etc) I figured this was a recent import that he just passed off for a quick profit.
Now, I took it to my vet at 10:45 on Saturday to have her assess the situation while I was waiting on the snake to be shipped back. I was not sure if I should try to treat it long term or ship it back and hope it doesn't die in transit. It was decided that instead of going thru testing and administering medication and potentially risk exposing my other animals, it would be best to just send it back. The snake was dry looking even after all the soaking to remove the mites so it was tubed some pedialyte to help with the dehydration.
Did I like this snake? Yes. I thought it was really cool looking and would make a nice dinker. It reminded me a lot of Casper (who recently proved - good job Deb). I did not want to return this snake. If it arrived healthy, there never would have been a bad guy post. If there were not so many unknowns about the snake, it would have stayed here and not been shipped back.
I could not trust the info from the seller and I did not know what I was dealing with so I could not keep it here and take that risk.
As far as the tables being turned, well, to be honest, that would never happen. I would NEVER sell an animal to someone in this condition. As a matter of fact, I have all sales on hold right now, just in case. Everyone appears fine but I am basically quarenteening my entire collection just to be on the safe side.
Sorry for the long post but I hope this clarified things a bit.

No worries, Steve! And please note that I do not believe you were/are lying about anything of what you said in terms of the snake's health! I also do not believe you would ever ship out a snake in that condition. I was mostly referring to "someone well-known/popular" versus "unknown," not you in particular.

In terms of the mites and ticks, a still photograph doesn't show them crawling. You saw it, but we can't see it here in the picture provided. That was mostly my point.

Actually, I can't say I disagree with any of your points here. And I appreciate the even tone; I wasn't sure what I was going to get after all that. It's always good to know that calm discussions are possible. Thanks!

Originally Posted by JudyC

Here's a flaw in your premise from the start. If the roles were reversed, the situation would not be the same. Every single person has the ability to build up "credibility credit" so to speak. This is done through long-term reptuation and/or by presenting their story in a calm, professional manner. Steve has a great deal of "credit" because folks already know him and he's proven himself to be a stand-up guy. We can be pretty darned sure he's not going make up stories and go to all this trouble just for a few dollars or a bit of attention.

If a stranger comes on and starts a thread about a bad deal and posts pictures of the snake with mites and ticks...sure, he may be scrutinized a bit more, but not unreasonably so. If this person maintains their cool and responds in a professional manner with half-way decent communication skills, people ARE willing to listen and will want to wait to hear the other side of the story. I've seen it time and time again...LOTS of times where the "newbie" is trusted until they give a reason they can't be trusted.

The fact that the seller refused to come on here and give his side of the story says a lot. The fact that he would upload a youtube video ranting about his side of the story without giving ANYone a chance to rebut or refute him also says a tremendous amount.

Sure...some folks here are given more "benefit of the doubt" than others....but that's because they've EARNED it...not because of some arbitrary double standard.

While I agree that having a good reputation gives someone extra points when things are uncertain, I always try to look at things from a neutral perspective. People do not automatically get a clean bill of health from me just because of a reputation.

Originally Posted by hhmoore

Don't forget creating a second account to give himself good feedback

Naw. Say it isn't so.

Damn so sorry to hear about this Steve. Its unfortunate it turned out for the worse but glad to hear you got your refund. He actually lives very close to me so if needed i woulda just had to go collect for ya hahaha.