help.........respitory prob....

I have a male ball python....and about 2 weeks ago i could here it wheeze......just once in a while.....then my son said mom his tube thing is sticking out while he breaths......so i check him and while i held him it was like he struck at me kinda but at the same time i thought it was maybe a sneeze or cough....didn't know if snakes did this or not?????


Went to the vet he said to just warm up the cage and see how he does after a few days cause it was mild....so i did this and it seemed to be going away then a about 5 days later the wheeze again.....and no a vibration in his chest........


so we go back yesterday and he shows me that Slither has some mucus in his mouth........ he gave him a vitamin shot and an antibiotic shot and told me to keep the cage warm and to give him this shot 1x a day 4 10 days.........

well my huband gave him the shot tonight and the snake moved and it came out b 4 he could inject it.....so he tries again and gets it in..........

well now i think he did it wrong because it left a bubble under the skin and the bubble has got bigger........did he pop a viem or something....cause when the doc did it there was no bubble!!!!!!

Is he going to be ok??? I'm very worried and calling Dr. Bart in the morning to see if we can come in.........

anyone know anything about this????

any feed back would be greatly appreciated!!!!!



Thank you

Hi,
don't know why an injection would cause a bubble. Right now the best thing to do is just try to keep the heat around 100 degrees F or possibly a few degrees higher so he can figth off the infection. Whenever you inject an animal, you should really restrain it well-gently of course, but don't let them squirm around. Ask you vet to show you how id they haven't already.

I don't know why the snake would have an inflammation around the injection, but you may wish to call an emergency vet that works night hours. call the local 411 and ask if there is a contact number for your area.
again, the main thing is keep the humidity low, you may want to put a smaller water dish or no water dish in the cage at least overnight. make sure the snake does have access to water every day, but you can put it on the cooler side of the cage and keep the heat up! Search this forum for respiratory infections, you can find a little more info on how to keep your snake ina good temperature range and how to deal with the infection.

good luck!

ahhhhh, where to start.
The shot, I guess. First - I am not disputing what the vet told you, but once daily x ten days is not the normal dosing for the antibiotics I am familiar with. I mention that only because I don't want to steer you in the wrong direction. As for the bubble, injecting fluid subcutaneously forms a bubble under the skin; injecting intramuscularly, less so (depending on the volume). That bubble should get smaller, though, not bigger. It is possible that in the process of trying to inject the snake, there was enough trauma to form a hematoma...or that a blood vessel was punctured/damaged. It would be unusual for that to develop into something dangerous - just keep an eye on it. There are a few other possibilities, but those are probably the most likely.

As for the rest of it, (nothing personal, Jessi) it is hard to give advice on supportive care without knowing what you are already doing. Blanket statements like get the humidity as low as possible are problematic because low humidity could have been part of the problem in the first place. (I will say that 100 degrees or a little more is a bit extreme, but I am sure that it
a) has been done, and b) does a pretty good job of drying out most enclosures.)
Michelle, it would be helpful if you would describe how you are housing the snake, including: what kind of enclosure, substrate, heating method, temperature (day/night, warm side/cool side), humidity level, room temperature, and how often you handle the snake. Please don't guess at the temps or humidity...if you don't know, say so (wrong information leads to bad advice). For the time being, though, you should minimize handling - read: only what is necessary to provide care.

Thanks for posting, i should have asked what the current situation was... :P

Ya, It definitely sound like you have injected the serum subcutaneously instead of IM. I am a registered Nurse, and in my early days, did this a few times. And with a snake that has such a fine line between subcue and IM, it would be easy to do this. It will absorb though, so do not give another shot until the appropriate time the vet told you to. If it grew a bit, you may have caused a hematoma (a bleed in the tissue). This will absorb too, and will be tender, so don't try and push on it to make it absorb faster cuz it will hurt! As far as giving Ab's for ten days in a row, I don't know. I guess you have to follow what your vet has said.....when my baby boy got pneumonia a while ago, I went in and he got one shot of very strong anitbiotic to get things going fast, and then a few days later, he went in for another of the same kind. That was it. The doc said that if he didn't get better that he would give a third shot, but nothing after that. I think he was giving him Zithromax. A very strong Ab. Yes, you should jack up the temps, but not to 100 I don't think. I think 95 is enough. is he mouth breathing? If he has a lot of mucus in his mouth and nostrils, you can clear it out with moist q tips. Try not to get any cotton stuck on his teeth. The less you handle him the better, but when you do, a little massage along the body can't hurt. Really gentle.....snake lungs take up about 2/3 of their body in some kinds. Balls I think have quite a long lung. About half way down their body. And they only have one....Hopefully you can get this little guy better soon. Take away any wood substrate. Put him on paper towel or newspaper, and for comfort to lay on, put a facecloth down and put his favorite hide over top of that. It gives him something soft to lay on. These hold the least bacteria. Change them every day for cleanliness. Cover over the front of his cage with a cloth to give him some privacy and darkness in order to decrease as much stress as possible if you have his cage in a busy room of the house.

cher

Thanx guys for all your help..........

Slither is in a 60 gallon tank i believe with astro turf a hollow ceramic log to go under a water dish (wich i think needs to be a bit bigger for soaking) a wooden square cube like thing with holes on the sides and top to climb in n out or hide in.....and two fake tree things that go diagonal across the cage for him. there is a big heating pad under the left side of the tank and a repti irodesent light on top and a heat light on the right side. the tank is 85 all the time now due to the doc said to leave the heat light on day n night now due to winter comming....anything else i'm not sure of....like humidity.......

I took him today and the bubble was way down to hardly nothing and the doc gave him his shot for tonight and re showed my husband how too......this time i watched in case i need to help. going tomorrow for a bigger water bowl and i guess another heat light for him....the doc said i should put one on both sides of the tank.......what do u think???


Again....thank you for your help.....and if there is anything you would like to add .... please do....any suggestion is good to hear.........

Originally Posted by 6y0ballpython

Ya, It definitely sound like you have injected the serum subcutaneously instead of IM. I am a registered Nurse, and in my early days, did this a few times. And with a snake that has such a fine line between subcue and IM, it would be easy to do this. It will absorb though, so do not give another shot until the appropriate time the vet told you to. If it grew a bit, you may have caused a hematoma (a bleed in the tissue). This will absorb too, and will be tender, so don't try and push on it to make it absorb faster cuz it will hurt! As far as giving Ab's for ten days in a row, I don't know. I guess you have to follow what your vet has said.....when my baby boy got pneumonia a while ago, I went in and he got one shot of very strong anitbiotic to get things going fast, and then a few days later, he went in for another of the same kind. That was it. The doc said that if he didn't get better that he would give a third shot, but nothing after that. I think he was giving him Zithromax. A very strong Ab. Yes, you should jack up the temps, but not to 100 I don't think. I think 95 is enough. is he mouth breathing? If he has a lot of mucus in his mouth and nostrils, you can clear it out with moist q tips. Try not to get any cotton stuck on his teeth. The less you handle him the better, but when you do, a little massage along the body can't hurt. Really gentle.....snake lungs take up about 2/3 of their body in some kinds. Balls I think have quite a long lung. About half way down their body. And they only have one....Hopefully you can get this little guy better soon. Take away any wood substrate. Put him on paper towel or newspaper, and for comfort to lay on, put a facecloth down and put his favorite hide over top of that. It gives him something soft to lay on. These hold the least bacteria. Change them every day for cleanliness. Cover over the front of his cage with a cloth to give him some privacy and darkness in order to decrease as much stress as possible if you have his cage in a busy room of the house.

cher

See now the doc told keep the heat lights on al night......is this bothering him?????

His cage is in my sons room....who only goes in there to sleep or play video games.........should i put a cloth down even though he is on astro turf???

He is taking Bactril....he gets 0.1cc 1 x daily for 10 days.........is this strong or medioaker????

His lung must go at least half way down his body cause i can feel it rattle!!!! Our poor little guy.

I'm going to try to feed him tomorrow.


Oh, and i can't remember the way the doc said...my hubby does but does the shot go 30degree angle twadrs his head or twards his bottom???? I know it goes into the upper part of his body as to he doesn't pee it out to quickly.......but i think he said the needle faces the head so if he jerks it doesn't hurt him.

leave the light on - you want to minimize temperature fluctuation - and get the other light like the vet said. what you are trying to do is raise the overall temperature of the tank and create a warmer area. As he gets better, you will probably not need to leave both lights on 24hr/day. (of course, that will depend on the temperatures)
Needle goes in pointing toward the head, you should be trying to go under a scale so that should make it easy to remember.
Don't bother trying to feed him - he is unlikely to eat...he's sick, and getting shots. Just leave him alone til his condition improves

The heat lamp lights will not bother him. You should be using red bulbs for heat....they are the best and do not disturb the snake's day/night cycle. What I meant about keeping him in darkness is to try and calm THE ROOM down. He still needs the day/night cycle in order to digest, but he's not eating right now anyways, so the best thing to do is keep the room as you usually do (curtains open, lights on, tv on, etc.) just cover over the parts of the cage that you can see in and this will dim things and calm it down. Kind of like putting a sheet over a bird cage when you want to keep them calm and quiet. Doing this will help keep things calm and settled for your snake. If he is in a room where your son is playing video games, etc, it shouldn't bother him now, but the quieter the better while he's sick. Even though snakes do not have ears, they feel vibration, so if your son is running around in his room and jumping, etc. this will stress your snake out. Snakes never get used to this kind of activity no matter how long they are around it. They are very solitary animals and only TOLERATE us as humans. They do not like us very much at all, contrary to popular belief or hopes. The do get to know us allright, but they never get to "like" us. Sorry to burst any bubbles you may have formed about this. Of course, it's all in what you believe and what you can find out from reading about it. I've come to this conclusion based on many many hours of reading, asking questions, watching my own snakes, etc. You form your own opinion...lol. Back on topic here, you do not need to buy another heat lamp if you can keep the cage warm enough with the one you have. A 75 watt light bulb should keep a 30G tank at 90 deg. with an under tank heater on as well. If you have a screen lid, you have to cover 85% of it over with a large bath towel if you do not have an insulation system in place already. I find this to be the safest and most insulating. Please, please, please make sure you monitor the heat because temps can spike in fifteen minutes and within two hours, your snake is too hot. The BEST type of thermometer is one with a probe that you can place at the bottom of the cage where your snake actually is. If you do not have one and cannot find one right now, put whatever you are currently using on the floor of the cage. Air temp is very different from bottom cage temp. snakes don't fly, and unless you have shelves or stuff for them to increase their height on, you need to monitor the bottom temp away from the edges of the cage. Next you should have a THERMOSTAT connected to your heat lamp and UTH. These two things (thermometer and thermostat) with temp probes are almost an essential to having a healthy snake environment, and are the best way to get this guy better. The antibiotic you are using is a fairly strong one, but the dose is small. It works over time building up the immune system as it goes. I prefer an aggressive faster treatment approach when you have pneumonia since it is such a vital organ, the lung. It would be different if the snake had body sores or something, but pneumonia needs to be nipped in the butt right away. Hopefully this works for you. Sounds like your vet knows what he's doing though. It just sucks that you have to poke the little guy ten times. this alone is putting him at risk for infection. I hope the needle you are using is 27G or smaller. Like an insulin needle size. And do not ever repoke with the same needle more than twice if you can help it. As soon as a needle peirces the skin, it is dull. If the snake flinches and pulls the needle out before you get it in, you have only one more chance before you should change the needle. If you have pre filled syringes and do not have this luxury, then make sure you are not doing these injections alone. Pick a new spot each time. I always thought that IM injections should be done where there is the most muscle. That would be near the middle of the body would be my guess. So the location you are using is ok. Unfortunately, this is also where they are the strongest. You must be quick and efficient. If you are unsure of yourself, take an old syringe that you've already injected with and practice on a banana. Banana skin and shape (has ridges like a backbone) is very close to injecting in snake skin and snake body. The thickness and tough outer shell is very similar. Have someone hold the banana and twist and wiggle it SLIGHTLY while you are trying to inject water or something. This will give you a very similar situation to injecting your snake the next day. Dont poke yourself though. It won't hurt you unless you have an allergy to the antibiotic the snake is getting. Make sure that the banana isn't too ripe. It should be just past the green stage and ready to eat yellow. All this sounds really funny, I know, but your snake will benefit because the less you have to poke him, and the more efficient you are, the less it will hurt and expose him to infection from repeatedly injecting around the same area. Just remember when all of these injections are over, your snake is going to be very stressed. Expect a shed cycle soon and refusal to eat of at least three weeks to a month. But make sure to offer food every few days after he is feeling better just in case he feels up to it. He'll need the nutrition. ask your vet when to bring him back if he refuses to eat. Hope this helps.