Hybrid Garter/ringneck ever seen

Have you guys ever seen a hybrid garter/ringneck in captive or in the wild? I had caught one that I believed to be a hybrid about 6 years back, and I sat it down to look at it, and my friend through a brick on it because he said he thought it was poisonous, I was evastated after he did that, needless to say we didnt alk for a while after that, but back on topic have you ever seen one?

I can't say that I have ever heard of these two species breeding together. They would, however, be considered an intergrade rather than A hybrid because they populate the same area. I don't know if they can breed and bare offspring.

Perhaps someone with garter/ringneck experience can shed some light on the subject.

Hmm.... i started thinking about that after I posted. Maybe it is a species of snake local to oklahoma that I am not aware of yet.

No way it could happen. Ringneck snakes lay eggs, and all the water/garter snakes I am familiar with are live-bearers. What characteristics made you think it was a hybrid?

It was the size of a garter and had the dark markings of a garter but had a red stipe down the back and then the bellie pattern of the ring necks around my town in oklahoma, its been a while since I've seen a ringneck but I believ the colors go red at the head orange then yellow... but im not a 100% sure. If I would have thought of it then iwoul dhave taken the ody back up to my house and taken some pictures of it, but I was 9 or 10 so it wasnt the first thing on my mind. The first thing on my mind was that it would hav ebeen a cool pet/

http://www.oksnakes.org/index.cfm?sn...&solid=0&all=1

Sounds like a plains garter to me. I have had the pleasure of getting bit by these in the wild, now its the musk that gets me.

As a small technical note, besides the differences in reproductive mode, the two occupy entirely different sub-families within colubridae (garters are Natricinae, and ringnecks bounce around in the taxonomy but definitely aren't natricines).

Also, the term 'intergrade' is only appropriate for mixes between different sub-species, usually where the ranges overlap. Any mix between two species, whether the range overlaps or not, is a hybrid.

Henry

Originally Posted by reptilebreeder

No way it could happen. Ringneck snakes lay eggs, and all the water/garter snakes I am familiar with are live-bearers. What characteristics made you think it was a hybrid?

While I doubt it would ever happen (they are pretty far apart) I would never say never.

My suspicion is that many reptiles have the genetic code to be either live bearing or egg laying, and that sometimes a mutation throws the switch, so to speak.

I believe there is a species of skink that is known to be either.
In Elgaria, northern and southern alligator lizards seem to be very closely related yet one is livebearing and the other lays eggs.

I would not be surprised if some egg laying X live bearing hybrids were possible. I don't think garter X ringneck is.

Oh - and even venemous snakes do not deserve to have a brick thrown on them.

Originally Posted by Mokele

As a small technical note, besides the differences in reproductive mode, the two occupy entirely different sub-families within colubridae (garters are Natricinae, and ringnecks bounce around in the taxonomy but definitely aren't natricines).

Also, the term 'intergrade' is only appropriate for mixes between different sub-species, usually where the ranges overlap. Any mix between two species, whether the range overlaps or not, is a hybrid.

Henry

I avoid the whole taxonomy mess - as definitions change.
To me - integrade means it is from a region where two different species or subspecies regularly cross. Hybrid is anything man made OR freak crosses in nature (like that cal king X gopher that was found)

You can reclassify animals all day long without impacting the definitions I like.

OK it was a long time ago and I didnt get to look at it long. I was very upset when my friend killed it, Im still not positive why he did it. MAybe it was just a garter mutation, maybe it was more like a ringneck and ribbon snake.