BHB reptiles "het" didn't prove out, won't fix it

Okay, having read 13 pages of responses to this issue, I don't know that I really have an opinion on this. I do understand David feeling that if the snake's genetics were guaranteed through Brian he should go to Brian and maybe not the person he bought the snake from. Now should David have maybe talked to the person he bought the snake from...probably, but at the beginning of this thread he provided all of his evidence to back what he was requesting. It appears to me (and some others) that all David wanting really is for Brian to keep his word.

Now, that being said, Brian does own a very large company. He's ultimately responsible for everything that happens with this company. Perhaps it would have been better customer service if he assigned one of his employees to resolve the situation, but it does say something that David was able to talk to Brian. I don't call a big company and expect to speak with the head cheese every time.

On the topic of David feeling defensive. He probably, well okay didn't at times, express himself in the most endearing manner, I do understand his feelings of defensiveness. I can imagine that it would be very stressful to decide to bring something to the BOI that you know is going to cause some conflict. Conflict is stressful, it doesn't excuse David's decision to make some statements were not polite and insulting, but maybe it does explain his demeanor a little more. Trying to work through something in private is stressful enough but bringing it to the public does crank up the heat.

Whatever deal that Brian and David had come to should be honored. Should the snake be returned to Brian? I think it should if any compensation is going to be given. I know I don't expect to get an exchange without the original product. But if returning the snake isn't in the deal then it really isn't up to anyone else but Brian and David what the agreement is.

Like so many other threads I have read on here it is unfortunate circumstances that have obviously brought the situation to this point. Brian could apologize for the length of time that it has taken to get to the final resolution have it all done and over with. David could maybe apologize for some misdirected words of hostility. Haven't we all said something we were sorry about later. This is a public forum and people are entitled to their own opinions, and will state them because that's what this is here for right? To help get to a resolution?

It's a tool to be used as last resort and from the sounds of the beginning of this tread David felt this was his last option. I only want to make one more point here and then I'm going to be done (I promise) name calling by anyone really isn't acceptable. We're all adults and we should conduct ourselves as such considering the fact that we are all trying to conduct business and preserve a hobby that we all love.

The original problem here was that David would like Brian to follow through with a deal that they come to on a snake that David felt was misrepresented. So really the only problem here whether or not David and Brian can start to communicate again and get this worked out. While Brian is very busy, what I can tell from his podcasts and his website and just from some of the information provided here is that it sounds like he does take customer service seriously. Remember, before they were big companies they were little companies too. David doesn't seem to expect more than what was agreed upon and I don't think that's asking too much. If my insurance company says they will reimburse me for something, I do expect them to keep their word and if someone I'm doing with business with says they do something I expect the same. So, in closing maybe we can all cut back on the judgements and name calling, focus on the facts that are presented and if we are playing jury here, I don't think anyone is guilty really. Sounds more like unmet expectations and frustration from feeling lost in the shuffle. I do hope this works out in a positive way as it's sad to see so much stress and unhappiness, I like reading the happy BOI's much better...I already know there's a happy ending.

Its a suck situation all around, I've known David and Chris in the past and I've spoken with Brian a few times in person so I felt obligated to read 14 pages of this stuff. I wished to address one inaccuracy.

Dennis, There is a Pastel Soul Sucker for sale that disagrees with you

Brian doesn't advertise here by the way.

I really don't have to say anything (Just look at the Snake).
If you are interested, send me an email contactus@bhbreptiles.com


2010 Pastel Soul Sucker(F) - $25,000 each


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Email us if you don’t see what you are looking for, we have so much more.

Originally Posted by nephrurus

Dennis, There is a Pastel Soul Sucker for sale that disagrees with you

I think you know what was meant within the context of David's post and suggestions made by him. Brian isn't a contributing member of this site. Hasn't paid for advertisement on this site. Has never supported this site. The account is less than a month old. Not that it would matter either way. He would subject to the same as anyone else here.

I guess my ads don't generate enough money to warrant even asking Brian for a response. Oh wait that's right, he's a big breeder he was right before I made the post.

It was put forth as that it would and that is absolutely false. I think the majority of the posters within this thread that have shown sympathy to David's position is proof of such.

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

I think you know what was meant within the context of David's post and suggestions made by him. Brian isn't a contributing member of this site. Hasn't paid for advertisement on this site. Has never supported this site. The account is less than a month old. Not that it would matter either way. He would subject to the same as anyone else here. It was put forth as that it would and that is absolutely false. I think the majority of the posters within this thread that have shown sympathy to David's position is proof of such.

And I did miss that he recently started posting in the classifieds. That said, out of the two, David is more of a contributing member to this site. The logic behind the post is beyond me. Considering we routinely ban paying members here for violating the rules. Several are on suspension now that have been on the high-end of the contributing member options here. It didn't protect them. It never has on this site.

So I got a little worked up and the results are here for everyone to see forever. I'm not entirely crazy, just a little excitable at times.

I think most of us understand where you are coming from, I know I have been stung by hets (thanx David VanHouten) and you miss out on so much more than just the $$ when they don't prove out, I know how you feel. Thanx for the last post. I do think Brian is honest and will honor his agreement with you...Better late than never? eh??

I've known and delt with Brian for several years, before he was into the BP and still mostly a colubrid guy. One thing I know that was going on as well at the end of Oct-1week Nov was Brian's sons B-day. His boy and mine were born the same day and both ended up with the same name. Brian is a stand-up guy and if you took a moment to look at everyting that was written in this thread it speaks volumes to this. He is going to honor the genetics of a snake that was NEVER paired with a VISUAL. He is going to give credit to loss of time and offspring. Yes, I agree he is at fault to a point with gettting in touch with you, but this is some mad time for him atm. Try to imagine all of the pairings BHB are doing at this TIME.

I dont know Brian personally, but from what I have seen at shows and on his site, he seems to be a good guy. The fact that people are saying that they are out 13 eggs and how none of them proved out, you still made money on the spiders and the normals... You didnt get what you wanted, but you did get babies, and you did make money??? That is what is confusing me

Unfortunately for Brian he assumed liability and entered into an agreement to rectify this situation.I feel he should have thought about that before making a decision. I personally wouldn't have given anything. I have always thought hets of any kind were a gamble.And sometimes when you gamble you lose.I also feel hets are the cheapo way to get into projects.Everyone wants a huge guaranteed return on a little investment(relatively speaking). How does everyone know the females are actually 100% hets if they have never been proven? Its a gamble,suck it up and move on. Even in a court of law ,recognizing Brian entered into an agreement.He has the legal right to change his mind.If the judge were to feel that he had no liability in the first place or your amount was unreasonable you would lose. I know everyone feels friends and family can't betray you but there is no real proof that your male came from brian and you would have to prove that. Not every investment yields areturn and if you sold the snake you have been compensated already.Furthermore, the value depreciates.To me this whole thing just seems a little rediculous.

Originally Posted by rcpreis3

Ok so if I sold a male het clown/axanthic for $3000 to a neighbor of urs for u, so u can save on shipping by combining orders, knowing that this is the deal, and then u breed it to compatiable females and get no visuals what-so-ever, I dont owe u jack squat?

Is that what ur saying?

I actually have no idea what you just said.

What I AM saying is that when I buy something from a retailer, in an industry where there is no implied or actual multi-buyer or lifetime "warranty", then I am responsible for the representation of said item when it leaves my possession... ESPECIALLY if I've taken money for it!

Think of it this way... I buy an ingot of 10 troy ounces of 24K gold for investment purposes from a well-respected, nationally-recognized retailer. I don't personally know enough about gold to tell a 24K ingot from an 18K ingot, so I take the retailer's word on it, as I should. Now, let's say I decide I need money worse than gold two years later, and I sell it to my friend... when I sell it, I tell him "hey, this is 10 troy ounces of 24 carat gold". I HAVE NOW BECOME THE SELLER, simple as that. I have represented a product, and taken money for it... what that product IS or IS NOT, at that point, is my responsibility to my friend to insure. If my friend goes and gets it checked out and finds out it's only 18 carat gold, he doesn't get to go whine to the original retailer. He didn't buy it from the retailer, the product was not represented to him by the retailer, and the retailer doesn't know my friend from Adam, and SHOULD protect himself by dealing only with me, his original customer.

If my friend has a problem with the gold ingot, he brings it back to ME, the ONLY PERSON ON EARTH that has ever told him it's "24 carat gold". When I refund my friend, *I* go to the original retailer and tell him we've got a problem.

So... you really think, in the above scenario, that my friend has any right to say anything to the original retailer? I don't think any reasonable person would say that they do. Unless this snake was sold with a 5 year/50,000 mile warranty, I don't think for one second the OP had any right bothering BHB about this. He should have gotten his refund from his "friend"... some friend, if he won't step in and make this right for David during all this time...

Originally Posted by annmikeal

I dont know Brian personally, but from what I have seen at shows and on his site, he seems to be a good guy. The fact that people are saying that they are out 13 eggs and how none of them proved out, you still made money on the spiders and the normals... You didnt get what you wanted, but you did get babies, and you did make money??? That is what is confusing me

In fairness to the OP, that's not the point. If he didn't receive what he purchased, he absolutely deserves a refund, regardless if he was able to "salvage" the situation to a degree.

He just complained to the wrong person for his refund... granted, that person out of the goodness of their heart agreed to do something for him, and NOW SHOULD. But it should have been his "friend" giving him the refund all along.