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Old 03-06-2012, 12:13 PM   #421
Christina Vincent
Jerry should do that...after all him n Mitch are friends right (olive branch?) Mitch has the knowledge and jerry may have the will to do so and make those snakes a case study. They should be in quarentine and jerrys already said he plans on keeping record of the ordeal (skin/genetics/possible disease) between them they could do something really benefitial to the Z community no matter the outcome. Need recorded instances to be able to share and learn.
Old 03-06-2012, 12:47 PM   #422
Paul Lynum
Christina, read Mitch's "olive branch' again lol. I tried making some monetary bets with some friends about what the outcome would be in 30 days. No one would take em. You can guess what that is about lol.

This thread is not just about Stu and Jerry. It's about everything and experiences people have had with Jerry. So anyone can post about what they have been through. I'm thankful for the BOI. If it wasn't here things would be (At the moment) a lot different between Stu and Jerry. Now let's see what unfolds within the 30 days (Less than that now. Tick Tock Tick Tock) and hope things work out for both parties on the original agreement between the them.
Old 03-06-2012, 12:48 PM   #423
Rick Staub
Can somebody loan me a benchtop electron scanning microscope. Also a lab full of instruments so I can purify the prospective pathogen. It is all so easy!

Many think ZD is caused by a virus. If so you should go read some papers by Jacobson and others on IBD to see how much effort it would take to characterize a new viral pathogen. It is a non-starter.

Jeff -- asking some lab to screen samples will do nothing since you have no baseline to know whether anything they find is normal. Any screen will likely only look for bacteria (plenty of those around normally) and protozoa/flagellate type organisms. Viruses are a different game due to their much smaller size.

I certainly hope we are not criticizing Stu, or Jerry for that matter, for not being altruistic and taking on the mantel of advancing the science for this potential disease. I would be happy if they would just take good notes on their observations.

Stu -- nice shiny scales on that fifth zonata. Begs the question -- are you going to ship him back int he same box as his litter mates?
Old 03-06-2012, 01:41 PM   #424
Jeff-If you are interested in taking up the challenge of ZD research and solving the problem I will galdly send you their sheds and pay for postage.

Rick-I will cross the shipping bridge when I get there. They were shipped to me in the same box. But I will most likely give Jerry the option.
Old 03-06-2012, 03:05 PM   #425
Originally Posted by Mjay View Post
last pic. heres the most recent pic. all doing well and keepin em pretty much the same as jerry recommended to me. thanks for looking.

Originally Posted by StuTennyson View Post
Just an after thought. Not sure why I didn't think of this sooner. Here is a pic of a 5th neonate from the same clutch, received the same time and kept in exactly the same conditions that so far has not exhibited the condition.

Originally Posted by Rick Staub View Post
Stu -- nice shiny scales on that fifth zonata. Begs the question -- are you going to ship him back int he same box as his litter mates?
Maybe it's just me, but the animal's scales in the photo above by Matthew just doesn't look as shiny as the later one taken by Stu. Matthew, when was that photo taken? You say it was the most recent pic, but that really doesn't tell us WHEN it was taken.

Would you mind taking another more recent pic showing the scales more clearly and in detail? Just for my own curiosity in this.
Old 03-06-2012, 04:30 PM   #426
Originally Posted by StuTennyson View Post
Hi Kelli-I actually live closer to Boyd. It's just an Azle post office that handles the mail. You are welcome to come visit me any time and see for yourself where I live. Stu
Hi Stu. Yeah, I know where you live and my point was that you aren't very far from Fort Worth at all and there are some excellent vets around here. If you need recommendations pm me and I will send you a couple that we use. Good luck with your season.
Old 03-06-2012, 05:40 PM   #427
Originally Posted by WebSlave View Post
Would you mind taking another more recent pic showing the scales more clearly and in detail? Just for my own curiosity in this.
I would love to see one, as well, because this just doesn't look quite right.

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Old 03-06-2012, 06:48 PM   #428
Show Me
Originally Posted by KelliH View Post
Hi Stu. Yeah, I know where you live and my point was that you aren't very far from Fort Worth at all and there are some excellent vets around here. If you need recommendations pm me and I will send you a couple that we use. Good luck with your season.
My guess is... Stu doesn't want to spend any more money on this snakes and I understand. Who would want to spend $3100 and then have to pay a vet when you feel the snakes were sent sick to you? Stu just wants them gone and anyone can see something is not right with them.
Old 03-06-2012, 07:03 PM   #429
Show Me
Originally Posted by Jeff Schofield View Post
Stu, to follow up on my first post in this thread and relate it to recent ones on husbandry: Things that cause problems like this in snakes arent something you can take a pic of and put on the internet,der. They are simply too small. And while we can yell back and forth about proof vs not having a test....had it occured to you to both(Jerry and Stu) to call a lab and have them come out and take random swabs of "clean" and "dirty" caging as well as possibly fecals and other tests to determine if there are conditions that exist in 1 place and not the other? Like I referenced a while ago(before I got sidetracked having to defend myself)it could be that you cages while visibly clean could harbor microbes that could be picked up with a swab, grown in a lab, and help in the definition and possible "cure" of said disease. Having someone pipe in that you are only 20 minutes away from Ft Worth, I'm betting they have such a lab. Call a food processor and find one that has HACCP control and ask what lab they use. It could eliminate possibilities and cut both of your quarantining time. Sadly now BOTH of you have this problem in your collections, how you deal with the problem(not this thread)will go a long way in determining professionalism.
Heck if you were to swab my door handle I'm sure it contains all kinds of nasty microbes that could be grown in a lab but that's the case with just about anyone's home. Under normal conditions most animals and people have a good immune system that can fend off most infections. I'm not sure how spending a crap load of money on the testing you suggest is going to do any good. If they had a test for zonata disease then that would be worth it but unfortunately they do not.
Old 03-06-2012, 07:37 PM   #430
Originally Posted by Mitchell Mulks View Post

Other things Jerry has done to others that I know to be fact, and hopefully the abused parties will share their tragic encounters with you, are:

1. Going mental on a breeder who didn't sell Jerry the holdback hatchling Jerry wanted.
2. Actively selling a wild-caught temporalis illegally collected from the Pine Barrens.
3. Taking breeders from a Zonata breeding loan, producing babies and not telling the owner of the snakes, and selling those babies and keeping all the money. When confronted about it he promised 'next year' he'd split the clutch, all the while sitting on holdbacks that he never offered to the owner of the snakes to make things right for being a their! Jerry claims everyone is lying about his behavior and that the person whom he ripped of is in fact a good friend, but I've spoken with him and I have his emails to show he dislikes Jerry immensely and feels as though he was stolen from.
4. Went into another person's house, took photos of all his zonata, and played them off as his. He told everyone he was going to have all these different locales of zonata for sale, but the hatchlings he was talking about weren't even his.
5. Screwed his Brother-from-another-mother out of hatchlings from a Purblan milk snake breeding loan (take home message: don't enter into a breeding loan with Jerry).
6. Knowingly sold mutt Baja Mtn kings as pure Martir stock when he found out that Dan Voss had sold him mutts and not pure animals. He was out the money so he dishonestly and under false advertisement did to someone else exactly what had been done to him. The classic part of this is Jerry just responded to a two-year thread where someone asked why he posted a negative BOI thread about Dan Voss. Jerry admitted that it was because two years ago he learned his pure stock was nothing of the sort. Since that time Jerry has unloaded his mutt stock onto others as pure.

Basically, don't interact with the man, because all that do tend to come out of it having been stolen from or lied to. Stu is one of many that have now been Krused, don't make the same mistake all of us have.

A "PURIST" that sells "MUTTS" as "PURE" is a bad guy hypocrite and a liar. I don't know Mitch but i think he is telling the truth.
Good Luck Stu.

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