Bad Guy Beware of Jerry Kruse - Page 51 - FaunaClassifieds
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:30 PM   #501
Focal
Sorry, maybe 'researched' was a better word.
 
Old 03-16-2012, 01:36 PM   #502
daksi1974
Wow! that took a long while to read. Partial success for Stu with the refund, total (present and futre customers) loss for Jerry.
 
Old 03-16-2012, 01:59 PM   #503
AlexBurgos
Thanks for today's post Mitch. That was an eye opening post. I don't keep Zonatas but we Boa keepers have our share of dreadful diseases that destroy collections as well. I happen to know Jerry personally and have always considered him a straight shooter. I say this in past tense not because that has changed but he an I have not communicated for much over a decade at least. I hope this all resolves itself and that things work out for all involved.
 
Old 03-16-2012, 02:22 PM   #504
JerryKruse
The little dig you threw in there is pretty demonstrative of how passive-aggressive you can be. No worries, feelings' mutual. But for the sake of "zonata disease", and since this was really your intention to write another short story, you have a new stage here -- why not begin a new study on it? You have the means in various ways to do just that. I mean, with the Servino lab and your pull at U. Santa Cruz, why not? It just might be your biggest thing yet Mitch. How hard could it be? Since you think it may be such a pervasive, possible innate pathogen this might be a huge project for you. Maybe you're right (well, i know for a fact that you KNOW you're right) -- it sure would bring a whole new, and productive (as opposed to driveling here) means of research that could change keeping zonata for the next generation. After all, many of us have children (you and me included) and I'm sure they would want to possibly enjoy such creatures in their time. And I've seen how you've had Calvin helping you pack up all those snakes in boxes, exposing him to what we all enjoy -- so maybe this is indeed a new anvenue for you that could help us all from a science perspective.
 
Old 03-16-2012, 02:28 PM   #505
StuTennyson
Mitch-very intersting post. Thanks for all your time and thought on this one.

Jerry-After thinking things over I'm going to send all six back to you Monday unless you have any objection. I have several reasons for this. One is to show good faith but also to save on shipping twice. I also don't want these in my collection. If you are wanting to have a resonable shot at restoring these snakes then the sooner you get them back the better. After receiving half the refund I feel confident the rest will be sent as agreed.
 
Old 03-16-2012, 02:48 PM   #506
JerryKruse
Whatever you prefer Stu. And, as you should feel confident. A slight delay doesn't denote that it's not going to happen. =) Then again, you felt they were on the mend so feeling confident might be a figment of the imagination given how I've lied and dodged you in deciding whether or not I'm going to screw you. (Figured I'd throw that one in there to save the jacka$$e$ from saying it.)
 
Old 03-16-2012, 02:55 PM   #507
Mitchell Mulks
For zonata disease to be properly studied it would require the attention of an infectious disease expert. I don't have any of the qualifications to even begin to search for a disease. Disease experts spend years getting their degrees and are highly trained specialists. My comments regarding what ZD could possibly be, are just that, one of many possibilities. I'm an evolutionary biologist, not a someone who studies infectious diseases. Furthermore, I don't even know who you'd turn to to begin this study. I just find it entertaining that so many people think it's an easy process to identify ZD.
 
Old 03-16-2012, 03:22 PM   #508
Focal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchell Mulks View Post
For zonata disease to be properly studied it would require the attention of an infectious disease expert. I don't have any of the qualifications to even begin to search for a disease. Disease experts spend years getting their degrees and are highly trained specialists. My comments regarding what ZD could possibly be, are just that, one of many possibilities. I'm an evolutionary biologist, not a someone who studies infectious diseases. Furthermore, I don't even know who you'd turn to to begin this study. I just find it entertaining that so many people think it's an easy process to identify ZD.
Then how did you come to the conclusion below? Especially without seeing them in person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchell Mulks View Post
Now, switching gears completely, I wanted to discuss Stu and his animals that are afflicted with 'zonata disease'. I realize many of you have questioned repeatedly if the affected animals could be experiencing something other than zonata disease, but no, they are not. Dehydration seems to be the causal factor that many have insinuated may be at play here.

Mitch
 
Old 03-16-2012, 03:38 PM   #509
Mitchell Mulks
When I used the word 'identify' I was referring to the actual isolation of a pathogen. When someone has the chicken pox you know it's the chicken pox just by looking at a person expressing the many pustules. However, I'm sure it took a ton of time and resources to actual isolate the virus responsible for it. All I was saying is that for those of us that have worked with zonata as long as we have, it's easy to identify an animal that is showing the classic tell-tale symptoms of ZD. The actual pathogen that might be responsible for it has not been identified, nor do I think it will be an easy venture to do so. Personally, I think it's a pathogen that responsible for the sickness, but only becomes active under certain environmental conditions. That's just my opinion. It could be purely environmental, but I don't think the evidence points to that. Stu's snakes in his pictures are snakes with classic ZD. Why is that such a big deal for so many people to accept? I even said in my long post that anyone who has ever worked with zonata long enough has had the misfortune, or will have the misfortune of dealing with this. It doesn't make you a bad person if you have snakes that are infected with it. You'd only be a bad person if you sold sick snakes with the knowledge that they were sick. I don't believe Jerry did that. In fact I'm sure they looked perfectly healthy when they left his house. I even think he may never have had an outbreak in his colony. That still doesn't detract from the nearly obvious case that Stu's snakes are displaying ZD and that the stock Jerry purchased came from a breeder who's zonata colony was once hammered with ZD. It's an easy connection that can be made, the only issue was how Stu and Jerry dealt with Stu getting sick animals.
 
Old 03-16-2012, 03:38 PM   #510
hrford
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focal View Post
Then how did you come to the conclusion below? Especially without seeing them in person.
Because he's talking about two completely different things in these sentences. In one he's talking about the symptoms that actually show in the snake, those seem to be easy to figure out. In the other he's talking about the disease itself meaning the virus/pathogen whatever that causes these symptoms. See a snake have these symptoms is easy figuring out what causes them, why, and what to do about it is a completely different story.


Sorry I've read every page and while I know nothing about ZD I do know something about biology and how research works.
 

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