Damian Macioce Selling TSE Hets -- You Decide

I could not agree more Mr. Gregg.
I do not see him as necessarily being a bad guy at all. But he does seem somewhat ethically challenged which puts him in a gray area.
None of us are perfect but the really good guys, can't say I'm one, at least make the effort to correct their problems and mistakes without being driven to it.
As for buying hets from him, I don't buy hets period at this point. Somehow the idea of purchasing a normal looking snake in hope that it will produce something different when it grows up in a few years is to risky for me.

Ok guys heres the update I spoke with Justin the other day on the phone and he told me hes going to email me so I can post it. We spoke about whats going on and he said that the girls are about 800 grams a piece and he will want to breed them at least twice to prove or disprove their genetics. I told him that if they do not prove out that I will either replace them with a 1.1 pair or albinos or some of my breeder het females or buy them back whatever to make it right. The reason I dont have the email yet is because he said I caught him from coming homme from the hospital he and his wife just had a baby about 3-4 weeks ago and she was premature so he really hasnt had the time to email me but will as soon as he gets a free minute which he said should be tonight or tomorrow. I apologize for taking so long but I didnt want you to think that I was just looking the other way on this thread. I will post the headers and everything on the emails.

Damian,

I have watched this lynching and then backtracking when the posters didn't have any ground to stand on. I think you could be considered a victim in this situation as well.

The best lesson from this is that I will check out buyers on here as well as sellers. I won't sell to someone who is out to find something wrong with a transaction and drag anyone they can find into a situation, especially when it doesn't involve them. I think most on here that got down on you are 100% removed from the situation and it seems like the person who has the animals is coll with everything so far so that should be the end of it.

I wonder where these guys were when I posted about someone scamming me on a snake deal? They could have lynched that scum bag and he would have deserved it.

Damian,

That's great. I'm really glad to see that you guys are getting something worked out that feels fair to both of you. Kudos to you for going through with it. I do look forward to seeing your email exchange.

Originally Posted by royalkreationz

Damian,

I have watched this lynching and then backtracking when the posters didn't have any ground to stand on. I think you could be considered a victim in this situation as well.

The best lesson from this is that I will check out buyers on here as well as sellers. I won't sell to someone who is out to find something wrong with a transaction and drag anyone they can find into a situation, especially when it doesn't involve them. I think most on here that got down on you are 100% removed from the situation and it seems like the person who has the animals is coll with everything so far so that should be the end of it.

I wonder where these guys were when I posted about someone scamming me on a snake deal? They could have lynched that scum bag and he would have deserved it.

Jody,

I'm not sure who you are perceiving as "backtracking" here. If Damian had not stood up and made this right, things would be a lot different....I still don't think it's right that even after knowing that the animals he sold were not hets, he did nothing about it. That's plenty of "ground to stand on". But he IS doing something about it now, and I give him credit for that, as do many others.

And I am NOT 100% removed from the situation as such....I got ripped off buying TSE "hets" that have not proven out, and I know how it feels to be ripped off by fake hets. I didn't want that buyer to go through the same thing I did. If that makes me a "bad buyer" for not wanting someone to get ripped off......I will be certain to remember not to respond to any of your ads.

As for your post about being scammed, I honestly don't recall it....I was on a bit of a leave of absence for awhile. Please feel free to let me know where this thread is, I do not always get to read all of the threads.

I keep reading statements that imply that Damien "knew" that the snakes that were sold were indeed NOT hets..but my understanding is that while TSE was selling fake hets, there is no way for Damien to know if THESE snakes are indeed fake until they are/are not proved out.

Therefore, I may have done just as Damien did, (not jump the gun) wait and see if they prove out because the buyer has my number and knows my website (probably kept papers too)...usually the buyer would contact the seller if they DON'T prove out and then the seller can make good on it. (another option would be to contact the buyer, explain the situation and see if he wants to go ahead and see if they prove out or not and set up something to satisfy the customer in case they didn't prove out after 2 or 3 breedings).

That's my take on the situation.

I keep reading statements that imply that Damien "knew" that the snakes that were sold were indeed NOT hets..but my understanding is that while TSE was selling fake hets, there is no way for Damien to know if THESE snakes are indeed fake until they are/are not proved out.

That is true.
I believe a thread about hets was here not long ago involving Derek Federico who purchased some "suspect" super stripe hets??

Deb,

I may have missed a post or two but I have not seen anyone imply Damian knew these were fakes at the time of the sale.

But he did know about the situation with TSE around this time last year, but never bothered to say a word to his customer about it until now. A year after he found out about TSE. And only after catching heat in this thread. That is the problem most people have with the situation.

Truly, it is just a matter of common courtesy that you inform any customer when you think there may be an issue with an animal you sold them. They should not have to track you down well after the fact. Not when you, the seller, knew there was a potential problem well in advance. Again, it's just a matter of simple common courtesy.

You are right. Understood. Thanks for clarifying. (I admit I have skipped over a few posts)

Cathy,

If you were ripped off by someone with TSE hets go to the person who sold them to you, and if it was not Damian then don't bother with his situation but rather the person that sold you the hets. Shouldn't you have the same questions for your seller about the animals you received that you have for Damian? How have you handled that situation?

My post is under Ed Braaten of Flying W Reptiles. Should make for interesting reading.

And, you are not the one I was referring to. I won't name names. Ask John (jasballs) about the way some of these people act on here. I think he would say the same thing as me. There is a group here that go after anyone they think they can get to for something.

As far as backtracking, I think the person who started this thread has already admitted his wording shold have been different. Take the time to read all the posts and see where things were taken back and comments were made to the effect of I am not saying you are a bad guy. I promise it's all there.

Thanks,
Jody Barnes

Originally Posted by royalkreationz

Cathy,

If you were ripped off by someone with TSE hets go to the person who sold them to you, and if it was not Damian then don't bother with his situation but rather the person that sold you the hets. Shouldn't you have the same questions for your seller about the animals you received that you have for Damian? How have you handled that situation?

My post is under Ed Braaten of Flying W Reptiles. Should make for interesting reading.

And, you are not the one I was referring to. I won't name names. Ask John (jasballs) about the way some of these people act on here. I think he would say the same thing as me. There is a group here that go after anyone they think they can get to for something.

As far as backtracking, I think the person who started this thread has already admitted his wording shold have been different. Take the time to read all the posts and see where things were taken back and comments were made to the effect of I am not saying you are a bad guy. I promise it's all there.

Thanks,
Jody Barnes

Jody,

I purchased my "hets" directly from TSE....so there was no middle man. As for what I did, I kicked, screamed (lol), called lawyers, wrote letters, called law enforcement, reported to the IFC, and helped form a group to go after Chris Johnson legally together. As I said before, I am still getting notes from folks who purchased TSE "hets" just learning about the whole issue, and no doubt there are a great deal more folks out there who have never known about it, and are still wondering why their hets have produced nothing but normals.

My whole issue here is that Damian KNEW the issue, and chose not to let the buyer know, waiting to see if the buyer would contact him. I don't think that was fair nor ethical, and after feeling the pain of being ripped off myself, I don't think ANY buyer should have to go through that, and anyone who has bought fake hets deserves some sort of compensation.

I understand what you are saying about some people going after folks for what seems to be no apparent reason (and I don't have to ask John how he feels, it's pretty clear lol).....but in this case, I don't find that to be what went on. No, at this point, I do not believe Damian sold these animals with any kind of malicious intent at the time of the sale, but to KNOW what you sold is not what you sold it as and not inform the buyer is not right. And, in more than one case here on the BOI, there have been instances of these same folks you speak of seemingly "going after folks for no reason"....and at the end of the day, or maybe the end of the week, the reason was apparent, and if it weren't for these folks doing what they do, many a scammer would not have been caught for much longer. Sometimes, that hunt is shown to be in error, and apologies are given to those deserving of them. But for the most part....the people called out are deserving of it.

And think about it....you are telling folks that aren't directly involved in the deals that they should keep their nose out of it? That's kind of like saying that you know who robbed the convenience store down the street, but since you didn't own the store, you shouldn't say anything....after all, it wouldn't be fair to the robber if you did.

As for the "backtracking"....I have read all of the posts, and still don't really see it. Jim did apologize for using the term "selling" instead of perhaps "sold", and others have given Damian credit for trying to make things right....better late than never. A lot of the words you see really depend on the response from the person that the thread is about....and while at first Damian was pretty adamant about it not being his responsibility (which yes, in my eyes, would have made him a "bad guy"), he did change his tune and decide to try to make things right. Therefore, the tone softened. If he had not changed his tune, there would have been little change in the direction of the others. See what I mean?

Anyhoo.....no sense in rehashing this over and over. Let's wait and see how things turn out for Damian and Justin.

Oh, and I'll be sure to give your Ed Braaten post a read.