Enclosures by Design

Hello everybody. Before I start getting flamed, I want to completely acknowledge that I failed to check the BOI before engaging in a transaction -- something I will not be doing again in the future, so I don't need any lectures for the moment on the necessity of doing my homework. That said, although some stuff has been going on that I am not very happy about, I'm not positive the degree to which I have a problem, but after reading previous BOI threads about Upstate Exotics I don't have much reason to be encouraged. The main reason that I am posting here is because I know Sal and Allison have been known to check this board in the past and I'm hoping that it might elicit a response from them. Therefore, I will post my entire saga as an incomplete and developing situation and withhold the assessment untill the end. I will make sure that I post continuing details as they unfold and will be more than happy to post my assessment of the complete transaction and product when the time comes, with a glowing endorsement of Enclosures by Design if one is in order. In broad strokes, snice I paypalled $345 for a custom three cage unit with two levels, one six-footer on top of two three foot enclosures two weeks ago, Sal has not responded to any of my inquiries. The cage was to have shipped a week ago, and I was supposed to receive notice of that, which I did not. At this point, I want one of a few things: 1) to know that my cage is in the mail, with a tracking number to that effect; 2) if the cage is not complete and shiped, I would like to avail myself of the 100% unconditional refund policy listed on the website so I can invest in other cages from a more reputable manufacturer, or 3) I am willing to consider some resonable accommodation if something was offered by Sal. I' m not sure what that would be, but I think I am very reasonable and I'm open to suggestions, beginning with an explanation of the whole situation. I think I have made my situation pretty clear. In support of my position, I offer the following timeline with copied emails. More to come as it develops.

Tuesday, September 9, approx. 4:30 PM (All times Eastern)

I fill out the inquiry form on the Encolsures by Design website asking about a six-foot, 2-level cage with the top level split into two cages.

Tuesday, 9/9, approx 7PM

I return a message left by Sal on my answering machine to talk about my needs. I am very encouraged by his speed in reply, and he is also very personable. He explains that the cage would function better structurally if the if cage were on top and the smaller ones on the bottom. He agrees to call me back shortly with a price quote.

Tuesday, 9/9, aprox. 7:15PM

Sal promptly returns my call with a quote of $345 plus $30-40 shipping. I agree and tell him that I will send him the funds via paypal when I get to the office where I have my email acess the next morning. He tells me that the cages will ship the following monday (9/15) or tuesday (9/16) at the latest. I understand that this is very quick turnaround nd am very encouraged by our conversation.

Wednesday, 9/10, 9AM
I have an email waiting for me with a paypal request when I make it into the office. I paypal the whole amount to Upstate Exotics. My invoice is copied below.

QUOTE

Dear Kris Stroup,


This email confirms that you sent a payment for $345.00 to
upstateexotics@starband.net.


------------------------------
Payment Details

------------------------------

Amount: $345.00
Subject: Enclosures by Design
Note:
Here is your invioce for your custom enclosure.

Shipping will be calculated, once boxed and ready to go, and will be
shipped ground freight collect.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Sal


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QUOTE

Wednesday, 9/10

I am unsure about how freight collect works, so I send a follow-up email to Sal. Text as follows:

QUOTE

Hi there.

I enjoyed speaking with you last night -- thanks for the quick
turnaround. I paypalled you this morning, so you should have received a
receipt on that. Anyway, I have just a couple questions I was hoping
you might answer for me so that I can be ready to receive the cages.

1) How does shipping work? Your email mentioned ground freight collect,
but I'm unfamiliar with whom that would be, how I pay for that, and how
I receive the cages, or if I need to pick them up. Any info you could
help me out with would be excellent.

2)In what kind of state will the cages arrive? I just want to make sure
that I have the requisite tools handy to take care of assembly.

Thanks for all your time.

Kris

QUOTE

Saturday, 9/20, 8PM

Still no reply from Sal, so I send another email. Text is as follows.

QUOTE

Could I get a progress report on my cage? Has it shipped yet? I'm still
a bit unclear as to how you're shipping and how paying for that for
works, so I would appreciate any clarification you could provide me.

Kris

Kris Stroup

QUOTE

Tuesday, 9/23 11:30 AM

Still no response. I decide that there's an outside chance that I either am emailing the wrong adress (the one by which previous transactions were conducted), or their email program is filering my webmail account, so I send a longer email from my work account. Text as follows.

QUOTE

Sal:

I CC'd this email to all the addresses I have on my correspondence
regarding my order with Enclosures by Design. It's going out on my work
account, since I'm in the office today. Normally, my correspondence is
through hemingway@zworg.com. I don't want to be annoying, but I'm really
starting to wonder what's going on. I paypalled $345 in the early morning
of September 10th as a follow-up to our phone conversation on the night of
the 9th, at which time you told me my custom cage would ship on the
following Monday (9/15) or Tuesday (9/16) at the latest. I followed up the
next day with an email asking questions about the shipping procedure, as
well as one last weekend (9/21) asking for a progress report. I haven't
heard anything since our original phone conversation. I would like to know
something asap so I can figure out what to do about my caging situation. If
making my cage in expeditious fashion is a problem, I would be more than
happy to take refund of my payment so I can put it toward caging from a
more established supplier. I knew I was taking a chance going with a new
operation, but I felt reassured by our phone conversation. I have been
pretty disappointed with the level of communication since that point. I
hope to hear from you soon so I can resolve this issue.

Thanks

Kris

Kris Stroup

QUOTE

Tuesday, 9/23, 4:30 PM

Frustrated because I have been watching Upstate Exotics post ads all day on KS classifieds, so I know they are online and should get my emails, I call the number listed on their webpage. I get voicemail and leave a message which has not been returned at the time of writing.

Tuesday 9/23 8:30 PM

In the wake of further KS ads being posted, I use the KS messenger function to reply to an ad, figuring they will get the message. Text as follows.

QUOTE

Below is a copy of the mesage you sent to UPSTATE EXOTICS

Sal:
I have been trying to reach you every way I know how, calling the number on your
website as well as emailing a few times. I just want to know what hapened with
my custom cage order. I was expecting to hear from you by last tuesday (9/16)
that it had shipped, but I've heard nothing and you don't respond to emails. At
this point, if it hasn't shipped already (I need to see a tracking number on
that), I'd like to avail myself of the 100% moneyback guarantee posted on your
site and just get a refund so that I can invest in caging from a different
manufacturer. Returning the paypal of $345 to my account (hemingway@zworg.com)
would be perfectly acceptable. Thanks.

Kris

----------------------------------------------
Click on (or cut and paste into you browser's
location window) the URL below to view the ad that
this message is in response to.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?de=135789&cat=22


----------------------------------------------
This message was sent by an unregistered or non logged in user.

Sent 07:31 PM, Sep 23rd, 2003 from I.P. Address 65.238.10.117

QUOTE

So that's where it stands right now. I am hoping one of these tactics will elicit a response.

Kris

Kris Stroup

I highly doubt they've been "too busy" to reply, as they had time to post the following to rec.pets.herp earlier today...

Want to know who to add on the tippy tippy top of that BAD GUY
list....?

Ken Yates @ Elite Reptile....

Here's the thread...read all about it....

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...threadid=25327

He ripped us off for ALOT of money...took animals and never paid for
them and is trying to sell them...

Had a website designed...and NEVER PAID for that either!

Just logged off the BOI and checked my email again, to find a reply from Sal, in reply to my inquiry on the KS ad.

QUOTE

Hi Kris!

We sent you an email this morning at 10:05am...it is ready to go and
ship out tomorrow. You will receive the tracking number tomorrow
afternoon.

Are you sure you have called the correct number? We are always here plus
have voice mail and answering machine.

Thanks

Sal

QUOTE

I'm hopeful that this leaves us in a good place, although I definitely didin't receive an email of any kind this morning, and none of my questions have been answered, not to mention that no explanation materialized for the lateness of shipping (over a week). We'll see what happens tomorrow -- I'll keep the board updated.

Kris

Kris,

I wish you the best on receiving your enclosure but I have a bad suspicion that you probably will not hear a word on it for a while. That behavior is pretty pitiful and is exactly what I would expect from them. Again good luck and hopefully you will receive your cage quickly.

Kris:

Our apologies if you feel you are not receving top service.

We received your payment on 8/10. We ask for 7-14 days for delivery.

-----Original Message-----
From: Upstate Exotics [mailto:upstate@upstateexotics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:05 AM
To: 'Kris Stroup'
Subject: RE: Enclosures by Design


Hi Kris

Sorry about the lack of communication and the delay for the delivery on the enclosure. The enclosure will be going out to you tomorrow via UPS ground and I will forward you all the tracking info once shipped. Please feel free to give me a call toll free at 866-551-78-387 if you have any questions or would like to discuss this matter.

Once again I apologize for the delay and this enclosure will be shipped out to you by tomorrow.

Thanks!!!

Sal Tornambene

ENCLOSURES by DESIGN
info@enclosuresbydesign.com
http://www.enclosuresbydesign.com

We have not received any messages from you nor telephone calls.

I do not feel there was a need to bring this to the BOI minutes after you sent us an email. Which we responded to when it came in. You didn't even give us a chance to respond....just quick to post, which I don't feel is very fair.

We have not received anything from you from the 10th until the email last night at 9:29pm. It didn't raise any flags not hearing from you, as we ask for that 7-14 day period.

Like I explained in the email this morning and this evening, your order is out for shipment via UPS tomorrow....I am 100% sure you are going to be more than happy with it.

My apologies once again for any misunderstanding and for you feeling there was a lack in communication.

Our telephone numbers are 518-692-3101 or call toll-free 1-866-551-PETS

We have voice mail and answering machines so if we are not here, please leave a message, we return all phone calls.

You sent us the email tonight at 8:32

-----Original Message-----
From: hemingway@zworg.com [mailto:hemingway@zworg.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 8:32 PM
To: upstateexotics@starband.net
Subject: Message about: CUSTOM SNAKE ENCLOSURES from ENCLOSURES BY DESIGN

I responded to you at 8:42

-----Original Message-----
From: Upstate Exotics [mailto:upstateexotics@starband.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 8:42 PM
To: 'hemingway@zworg.com'
Subject: RE: Message about: CUSTOM SNAKE ENCLOSURES from ENCLOSURES BY DESIGN

You posted here AFTER that...why?

You posted here AFTER that...why?

Perhaps it is because he's been trying to contact you for the past thirteen days or so?

Perhaps it is because he received the email after he posted. Just because it was sent at X:XX, that does not mean that it was received/viewed at X:XX.

September 23, 10:45 PM

I just got off the phone with Sal, who was quite dismayed that our transaction was brought to the BOI. He reasured me that the cage would be shipping tomorrow, and offered an extended explanation about problems with shippers and switchimg companies, and a host of other issues that might motivate a delay.


All I can say is that I would have been very sympathetic to all those concerns had they been expressed as a result of Sal's own initiative in fulfilling his responsibility to keep his customers informed, especially when delaying shipping for more than a week after the promised date.

He continues to assert that he sent an email this morning. As of now, I have not received that email, but I promised him that I would reference it in this forum.

I chalk this one up as a success for the BOI as it certainly seems to function as a motivation to good customer service when all transactions are conducted above the board. As it has been from the start, my interest is only in full disclosure. I will continue to update this thread as the situation develops, when I receive a tracking number, and when the cage arrives. As I noted in my first post, I did not post this with the intent of atacking anybody -- this could very well turn into a ringing endorsement or the quality of ages Sal constructs, if not his customer service in this instance.

Kris

Please report back to the BOI and let us know about the quality of these cages.

Could you please update us on the status of your transaction and if it has been completed, the quality of the cage?

thanks,
Wes Pollock