Observations Of A Closed Society

So Jerry, what is a person supposed to do with the 15 corn snakes they produce?

With the 50?

With the 200?

The internet changed the global market place. Anyone can sell anything. It's not just herps. Go to EBAY and put in anything, someone will most likely be selling it. I agree there needs to be an agency to go after ppl who rip others off, but I don't think just because a 14 year old decides to sell some fly cultures or some guy wants to sell off his excess offspring. They need to spend X number of thousands of dollars to do so.

As I said before, I really think our market changed because of the increased presence of shows and the internet, making it easier for breeders to fair compensation for their offspring. If wholesaling our offspring were even somewhat fair I don't think you'd see so many "fly-by-night" vendors.

Sorry, the last sentence of the next to last paragraph should be part of the sentence before it. Brain Fart!

If their locked out, we all sleep safer.

Your regulation would lock me out as well since I do not fit (nor desire to) into your inefficient heirarchy.

Their are alot of fine people out their that have invested alot of time, money and sweat in producing herps that I would never have even dreamt of.

While I consider myself part of the above group, over-regulation would lock me out as well (the law wouldn't differentiate between good intentioned cash strapped startups and poor intentioned cash strapped scam artists. For the record, I see a number of unethical, unprofessional businesses in this industry that are funded by daddy's money, inheritence etc that your regulation would allow in.

because we all know that legislation is in the pipeline. How it will affect us remains to be seen, but it will happen.

Brian, to answer your question, as to what to do with these animals that have produced for you is an interesting one. Because this is what puts people into business, at least for a short while before they move onto something else. You also happen to be correct about your analogy to Ebay. I am fully aware of the difficulties that arise in any business. As a matter of fact I think we both can agree that Ebay has created businesses.
The livestock business is somewhat unique and needs to be monitored in order to be successful. We cannot sell endangered animals, or break into zoos or smuggle herps accross borders any longer. The penalities are stiffer, and countries have alliances with other countries. So our situation is a bit different. It would only benefit you in the long run, me included, if we were protected from our own worst enemies, namely those people who dont care, are in it for weekend, need money in a hurry, and on ad nauseum.

Insofar as the example of the 14 year old, I used it to portray an actual incident that did occur. I dont mind competiton, but is it fair for someone to get into a show with no permit at all ! Is that the criteria? Of course not! I dont think you would like a person taking a booth next to you who goes from friend to friend, and brings herps to sell at a show (regardless of the reason) with out having some legitimacy. The organizers dont seem to care, they just want the table sold. So who protects Brian ? At least if you were licenced as a dealer or breeder or whatever, they would not be allowed to participate unless they themselves were licenced. Is this such a bad thing?

Daniel, you would not be locked out, because the regulations that I was referring to has nothing to do with your inventory or how or where you maintain it. If your residence is your place of business , fine. If you need a phyical place, thats fine to. But at least by being licenced, you add legitimacy to your vocation. Right now their is none. We are all pooled together even though we may call ourselves importers, or wholesalers, or breeders. Without some clear understanding what a looser does on the bottom of the rung, may effect all the good work you have done on the top of that rung. Thats a given fact.

I saw what happened in 1975 when someone whom I know tried to smuggle some herps into the country. It effected everyone. Everyone became a matter of suspicion, and I did not like it, I had nothing to do with this individual, never did business with him, but all of a sudden we were monitored. As isolated as this incident was (without going into to much detail) the appearance of Fish and Wildlife was no longer a friendly matter, but rather an intrusion. It has continued to this day.

Out here we already have a licensing program for all businesses. This is money I throw away errr, I mean give to government officials that does nothing to assist my business. There are no criteria other than just a physical location within the city. They have no way of knowing the condition of what I sell on a daily basis, good or bad. I need to throw away more money in this manner, like I need a hole in the head. The funds required for any type of physical inspection process would drive the fees to an outrageous amount (ergo locking me out).

You say this is going to happen anyhow. That may be so. As a business I am almost positive that I'll be broken into someday. Doesn't mean I leave the door unlocked with my inventory sheets and a store map by the door for the crooks. I protect myself tooth and nail from the government, err I mean theives.

Again, a voluntary trade association with the intent and game plan to legitimize the industry I would agree with 1000% and support both financially and with effort. But inviting government intrusion I'll pass, I saw that vampire movie

participating in this discussion. Right now things will be the same, but we both know that eventually this very thing we have written about will effect all of us. I was wondering if it is to much of a problem to let me know a little about yourself. Do you have any occupation, are you married, or in school. I am just curious. The very best. JERRY

Jerry, the regulation of which you speak is there! Remember at the W. Palm show, the guy from out of state who had no FL permit. $500 fine, doubt he'll do that again. I understand you may be talking more about business licenses and the like, but I really have no problem w/ other breeders bringing stuff into the shows I do, in order to sell it. I don't need more rules to protect me, either I can compete or I'll simply get out of the business.

fined $ 500.00. Thats alot of money, and this was only permit related. Can you imagine what would happen if the state tax people decided to crack down. That would be a serious problem because you have to be licenced to collect tax in Fla. , and when it comes to revenue, their very unforgiving. Any sale requires tax, and you and I both know that none is collected at these shows. All it takes is one individual and that would cause a landslide. See you at the next show. Thanks for participating. JERRY

Jerry,

Just FYI, I found this organization in the Pet Products News magazine today.

www.pida.org

They're an organization trying to ensure the survival of the structured business system (manufacturer --> distributor/wholesaler --> retailer). Just thought you mind find it of interest.

Thanks to a link in the BOI i found this thread.

Licensing and permitting along with inspection can do no harm to the industry! In fact it can provide much more legitimacy and honesty to the sellers and reassurance to the buyers in some respects. As a licensed contractor nothing irritates me more then hearing stories from my customers of unlisenced persons doing shoddy work or ripping them off for thousands of dollars. The actions of unlicensed and unregulated contractors reflect horribly on the honest reputable contractors.

In the reptile industry I see licensing and permitting not so much as nuisance or intrusion but more of a check and balance. Because I keep venomous I am inspected by fish and game from time to time. I have found this to be a bonous as they not only check my venomous but also like to see the nonvenomous. Knowing people like quality animals that are healthy and kept well I log each visit form fish and game and when a potential customer ask me about my animals i inform them of the inspections. Letting them know that though its a inspection designed at hots they do check the conditions of my other animals and to date have found no problems. Also i send a copy of the requirements i must meet under the law for housing of animals so they understand that I must meet those requirememnts. This has helped me with several sells when buyers were skeptical from past rip off artist.

As to reptile shows. I would much preffer purchase from persons I know have proper licensing and permits. Not only can certain species cost you dearly in fines if you do not have proper documentation of its origin but the fact is it also shows the seller has taken the time to be legal on his actions and as such is more than likely not a scammer. The cost of permits and licensing in most cases is not as drastic as some may think and a few good sells and you have more than covered the cost.

Be you new to the hobby or a seasoned pro just as with any bussiness you should strive for the best product and a bussiness moral better then the next guy.