Adenovirus Questions

A few comments from a BOI thread :

Originally Posted by walker75

One positive dragon has lead to some losing their colonies.
Cross contamination proven

Originally Posted by monkeywrench133

Who has lost a colony to this virus?
I've read many statements from people saying they have outwardly healthy, normal dragons that have tested positive.
I know that Tere has a pair of siblings that are positive, apparently healthy, but significantly smaller than the rest of their siblings.
Again, not to stir controversy, but other than the unfortunate woman who had some of her animals put down on bad advice, who can actually say "my animal died from Adeno"?

I would truely like to know these answers also...

In addition, failure to thrive/runts can be caused by numerous factors. Just because an animal tests positive for adeno does not mean that adeno is the cause.
Please check out this Australian breeders observations :
http://www.aussiepythons.com/showthread.php?t=44103 POST #7

Im sorry, but runts do occasionally occur in latter clutches and also with older breeding females. (not only in dragons, but other species as well) And unless a person has produced many clutches over a long period of time - I do not understand how anyone could feel they may have enough experience under their belt to make a statement that failure to thrive/runts are caused by adenovirus.

Originally Posted by Dachiu

PLEASE NOTE :
California Avian Laboratory is a diagnostic and consultative support for avian/exotic veterinarians ONLY. It has been requested by them that no one contact them directly - but instead please have your veterinarian contact them with any questions on the testing methods available through their lab.


However, they do not offer atadenovirus testing for bearded dragons.

Funny, Vickie, that's not what they told me yesterday morning when I called them.

After finally getting fed up with the attacks on Denise, I asked her for the name of the lab, called them, and was informed that YES they do PCR testing for bearded dragons, only through a vet. The man I spoke with was not very happy with me calling, and made that very clear to me.

Perhaps the person you spoke with was tired of the lab being harassed for Denise's test results and NOT information about the testing they offer...despite what is being told to everyone on here?

Tere :
I know nothing of the harassment you are talking about - so if you are implying that was me, you are most certainly out of line.
I just made my only phone call to them and posted what he said. To my question "Do you offer PCR testing for bearded dragon atadenovirus with blood being the submitted sample?" I receive a curt 'no'. Per the gentlemans request, I contacted my veterinarian and he will contact them today for the details on what they do offer.


What part is not being comprehended here? I do not want Denise's results - I want to know what lab she used.

Tere, it is real easy to prove, post the proof.

Originally Posted by Dachiu

Tere :
I know nothing of the harassment you are talking about - so if you are implying that was me, you are most certainly out of line.
I just made my only phone call to them and posted what he said. To my question "Do you offer PCR testing for bearded dragon atadenovirus with blood being the submitted sample?" I receive a curt 'no'. Per the gentlemans request, I contacted my veterinarian and he will contact them today for the details on what they do offer.


What part is not being comprehended here? I do not want Denise's results - I want to know what lab she used.

No, Vickie, I was not implying that it was you doing the harassing. I said that they claim they are being harassed, and it typically takes more than one phone for someone to feel harassed, at least in my opinion.

I am glad to know I'm not the only person that received a curt response, though.

Originally Posted by Dachiu

Tere :
I know nothing of the harassment you are talking about - so if you are implying that was me, you are most certainly out of line.
I just made my only phone call to them and posted what he said. To my question "Do you offer PCR testing for bearded dragon atadenovirus with blood being the submitted sample?" I receive a curt 'no'. Per the gentlemans request, I contacted my veterinarian and he will contact them today for the details on what they do offer.


What part is not being comprehended here? I do not want Denise's results - I want to know what lab she used.

I already spoke with my vet, and he will be letting me know tomorrow what they are offering as well.

Originally Posted by varnyard

Tere, it is real easy to prove, post the proof.

Tere cannot post anything she does not have.

Cathy, that's great. Consistent answers from multiple sources is the best way, I think.

Originally Posted by Dachiu

A few comments from a BOI thread :



I would truely like to know these answers also...

In addition, failure to thrive/runts can be caused by numerous factors. Just because an animal tests positive for adeno does not mean that adeno is the cause.
Please check out this Australian breeders observations :
http://www.aussiepythons.com/showthread.php?t=44103 POST #7

Im sorry, but runts do occasionally occur in latter clutches and also with older breeding females. (not only in dragons, but other species as well) And unless a person has produced many clutches over a long period of time - I do not understand how anyone could feel they may have enough experience under their belt to make a statement that failure to thrive/runts are caused by adenovirus.

I have spoken purely from my experience. I do whole heartedly believe that the portion of failure to thrives was as a result of adenovirus issues. I bred Herbie and Tiger Lily my first season. They were all large and healthy. Even the smaller ones were larger than others I saw for sale that were the same age. Out of a clutch I had maybe one or two like that. Tiger Lily laid 3 clutches in 2005.

Now, let's go to 2006. I again bred Herbie and Tiger Lily. The first clutch started out fine. I also bred Clyde (positive for adeno) with Maggie. By her second clutch I started to lose babies at about 2 1/2 weeks. It then started to happen to my orange babies (which under the same conditions did fantastic the season before) at 6 weeks. After all of the deaths, it was split pretty evenly between babies that grew and appeared normal and babies that were EXTREMELY underweight and just tiny. All of my bins tested positive for adenovirus via fecal EM. I also had two necropsies performed that listed the cause of death as adenovirus in bearded dragons.

I may not have "years of experience" under my belt. But I learned absolutely everything I could before breeding and carefully chose my breeding stock. I provided good husbandry and these babies were well cared for. Tiger Lily was a little over 2 1/2 years for last years clutches and Maggie was almost 2.

I do believe a little common sense goes a long way. I had three extremes in one clutch, deaths, extreme non thrivers (I would not even consider these runts) and normal appearing dragons. They were all kept under the same husbandry. One common factor in all 3 groups is adenovirus positive results. I absolutely believe it was a factor for all three groups, including the non thirvers. I was fortunate to have very healthy large parents and their offspring from the first season is a testament to that. This is why I KNEW something was wrong when the first baby died. I did not have any deaths in season one, so this put up a red flag for me.

Because of the sheer number of dragons you breed, it makes sense you would see more runts. That does not mean that others breeding small numbers will have the same experience. I am not going to sit back and let you belittle me because I have not been breeding and have "years of experience under my belt." I know what I know and witnessed first hand what this did to each clutch. I believe the virus contributed to the issues with the babies and for you to make that comment seems pretty arrogant to me. I am strictly speaking from my experience. You were not there, you did not see the babies wasting away overnight. You were not in my shoes and can't possibly make a judgement that I do not have enough experience to share what I observed first hand.

I have never called this lab, but I did call Studio City Animal Hospital one time and one time only ...looking for a lab, NEVER asking for anyone's test results...there are actually people interested in doing this test...a breeder in Yorba Linda wants a vet that will pull blood and do this test......that hospital called me several times with no luck.

The people wanting to test this way...your dragon has to have a systematic infection for the detection of the virus with this blood test....this test is unreliable to detect adenovirus in a dragon without viremia circulating through the blood........... you have heard the person who develops the test and Dr. Stacey both say this, it is so much easier to just send a fecal to Florida.

My email box has half a dozen emails asking me where to get a blood test because they heard I asked around...I didn't ask around. Please read the above and I asked only Dr. Stacey when we were on the phone..he doesn't know either..what part of he said he doesn't know is not being understood..........I don't know, I used Florida and IL for my testing methods like I have described, I can give you information on testing with those places...but otherwise leave me alone, please read what I wrote and just stop pestering me about it, I am deleting the emails and not answering them.

Wendy,
You are entirely too touchy on this subject and seem to think every comment is directed negatively towards you. It's not.

I was talking about failure to thrive/runts occurring sporadically in later clutches and how more that 1 breeder that has multi-clutching females has noticed this happen - not only here but in Australia too. Now, considering they have access to (supposedly) 'fresh/uninfected' stock in Au. and it happens there also - attributing adeno as the cause, in my opinion, is sheer ignorance.

This is now bantered around and believed to be a symptom of adenovirus - based upon what??