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General BS forum I guess anything is fair game in here. Just watch the subject matter doesn't get carried away too much.

View Poll Results: Which Fool Should We Vote For?
Bush 51 49.04%
Kerry 33 31.73%
Nader 5 4.81%
They all Suck Bigtime!!!!!! 15 14.42%
Voters: 104. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-27-2004, 06:23 PM   #81
Alias47
I bow down in your stead...

I like to play the devil's advocate...and argue the point...but politics is something that is never worth arguing over.

People will defend their position to the utmost...and there are facts that can be shown...and sometimes construed (why do you think "Campaign Managers" (Spin Doctors) get paid so well?) to support most any logical (or illogical) view.

The beauty of this great country of ours is that we are allowed...and even encouraged...to disagree.

I just hope it stays that way.

Thank you for the excellent discussion.
I will still vote the way I will, and you vote the way you will and that is the greatness of our system. May the American People decide well.
Then we can go have a beer and discuss something much more arbitrary...like snakes.

I agree that Iran is definitely one of our largest problems...
I think our dear friends the Saudis need some straightening out as well (17 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi) considering a majority of known/captured terrorists are coming from inside Saudi Arabia.
And lets not forget Syria...who was more than willing to harbor any terrorists that happened to leave Iraq.
Starts to sound the the Crusades and killing for religion.
Theirs...not ours.
When does it end? Or are we looping ourselves into the vicious circle that Israel has been involved in since WWII. Not quite the same scenario...but seems to lead down the same path.
What about North Korea? And the path that Vladmir Putin is taking Russia? Are we to ignore these threats? I am NOT an advocate for Saddam Hussein...but its like we are kicking our favorite dog. CIA and Justice Dept. groomed him for this job when it was convenient for us, and now that he serves no purpose, he becomes a starting ground for the US takeover of the Middle East. These other countries will have to be dealt with for sure...especially now that they have a reason (within their own minds) to want to wage war against the Western Infidels.
What about our old adversary Khaddafi? He keeps inciting anti-American feelings in Northern Africa...why not start there? He seems to be much more of a threat to our personal security than Saddam.

Well...if you are ever around...I'll buy the first round, and we can discuss the weather, or women, or reptiles...I bet we could find something to agree on...and it would prove to be an interesting and worthwhile discussion.
 
Old 09-29-2004, 01:36 PM   #82
firehooligan
Bush is an idiot. I can't believe you people think it was ok for him to send young men and woman over to Iraq telling them and their families it was because of wmd. Now we don't find any wmd's and Bush says that it was still the right thing to do. Now Bush get's to have fun and take long vacations while these families are burying their sons, daughters, husbands, wifes, dads, and moms. Does Bush say he's sorry? NO. Does he attend funerals? NO. Why should him or any other rich republican care? Their families are never going to Iraq. Why would they wan't that when they can have some poor kids go there. Go ahead Bush lovers. Keep on believing everything the bush administration says. The Economy is great? The Iraq situation is great? The world is safer? Nothing wrong with spending so much money that our country could go bankrupt? If he is re-elected you will just as much to blame as him when the country hits rock bottom.
 
Old 09-29-2004, 01:45 PM   #83
Alias47
At least us Chicagoans think alike.

Kerry is not the solution...but he is the lesser of two evils.
 
Old 09-29-2004, 02:10 PM   #84
firehooligan
Quote:
Originally posted by Alias47
At least us Chicagoans think alike.

Kerry is not the solution...but he is the lesser of two evils.
Exactly. By no means am I claiming that Kerry is the best we can do but he is by far the best candidate for this election.
 
Old 09-30-2004, 10:56 AM   #85
Alias47
What ever happened to having a choice...a democracy.

Ultimately choosing between two people (sure I can vote for Nader...or anyone else for that matter, but truly the election comes down to one of two people, and I might as well make my vote count) is a load of crap.

With the amount of money it takes to run even a modest campaign...you must have the backing of one of the two parties.

Just ridiculous.

People should get their heads out of their butts and find the best candidate instead of following their "party" like sheep.
 
Old 09-30-2004, 07:23 PM   #86
CAV
Quote:
Originally posted by firehooligan
Now we don't find any wmd's and Bush says that it was still the right thing to do.
How do you know what we've found? Are you being briefed daily? It is a big, big world. CNN doesn't tell you everything that is happening in it.


Quote:
Originally posted by firehooligan
Now Bush get's to have fun and take long vacations while these families are burying their sons, daughters, husbands, wifes, dads, and moms. Does Bush say he's sorry? NO. Does he attend funerals? NO. Why should him or any other rich republican care? Their families are never going to Iraq. Why would they wan't that when they can have some poor kids go there.
Of course he doesn’t. HE’S THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF THIS NATION, AND THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF. You can't possibly imagine the requirements for a presidential visit. Jesh, he didn't even attend his own daughter's graduations because he felt it would be too big of a distraction for the families of the other students. Besides, even if he did, you’d claim that he just did it to play a political trump card.

I hardly consider myself rich, but I've buried soldiers and have presented a flag to the next-of-kin. While they were sad, I've never met one that was even the slightest bit bitter. They took it in stride, knowing that their loved one volunteered to serve, and died for something they believed in. Like the saying goes, you won’t find something worth living for until you find something worth dying for.

It amazes me how you can sit there and armchair QB a topic that you have ZERO credibility with, no concept or personal knowledge of, yet throw around your opinion like it should matter.


Quote:
Originally posted by firehooligan
Go ahead Bush lovers. Keep on believing everything the bush administration says. The Economy is great? The Iraq situation is great? The world is safer?
I don't have to take anyone's word; I get to see it for myself everyday. IT’S MY JOB. You are actually right about one thing: the world IS safer today than it was 4 years ago. Just pray that we'll have the next four years to finish what still needs to be done.

Oh, just out of curiosity, did either of you vote in 2000? How about in this year's primary? State or local elections? It has been my experience that the people heard complaining the loudest are usually the one that don't even vote. I honestly hope I'm wrong, but it usually seems to work that way
 
Old 10-01-2004, 12:15 PM   #87
Alias47
What is your position in the military?

You speak like you are a consummate tactician and have access to "eyes only" classified documents.

How do I know what we've found?
Do you really think that Bush's White House would keep anything they thought even MIGHT be a WMD in Iraq a secret? It would be on the news so fast your head would spin. With the impending election, news like that could save Bush's presidency...and lend him credibility.

Speaking of credibility...you have done nothing whatsoever to attain any level of credibility. My credibility comes from the fact that I am an American Citizen, a registered voter, with a wealth of information (regardless of the fact that almost all media is biased in some regard) in front of me daily. I can make my own decision, and talk about the reason I have made those choices.
That is the wonderful thing about our free country.

Getting back to what you said earlier...I have children, although none of them are old enough to serve their country...and if they choose to, I would be proud of them for that service. I have lost friends and seen the trauma caused by armed conflict. The relatively tamest (I detest myself for using that word to describe an armed conflict, but in relation to our other conflicts of the 20th century, it fits) conflict caused HUGE amounts of trauma for the people who had to go and fight. I appreciate and thank every single one of them. And every one of the people who are in Iraq right now. The people that work to keep this country safe, yourself included, are the most selfless, patriotic, and UNDERappreciated people in our country. They do their thankless dangerous job so I can sleep at night...securely. I thank them for their sacrifices. I support our troops 100%. They are doing their job, and getting it done with what they are given.

I DO NOT support the motives that got us there in the first place, nor the decisions and methods that are keeping us there, now and in the future.

I asked for one shred of evidence that supports us being in Iraq.
You stated that Iran is a bigger threat and wouldn't we "rather be poised, ready and sitting on their borders?"
Last I knew, the forcible takeover of a country because they are adjacent to our real target was something done by Hitler's Nazi Germany and against International Law. Of course Bush's foreign policy is to make us unaccountable to ANYONE for any of our actions. But he still holds other accountable? You really feel that Iran is that important that we should have killed thousands of innocent civilians...and over a thousand of our own troops, your PEERS, to have access to their border?
You have an even worse case for being there than Bush.

As I am sure you, with your vast tactical knowledge, know, Iran is also bordered on the northwest by Turkey. Of course their common border is only about a third of the one that Iraq shares with them. On the east they share a large common border with Afghanistan, which we were supposed to have conquered (with a darn good reason...I am in full support of Afghanistan) but left to the wayside once Iraq became the focus. We have enough control of that country to use it for access to Iran.
On the northwest is the Black Sea and the South is the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman. Directly across the Persian Gulf is Saudi Arabia (Our so called ally) and almost touching is Kuwait, who owes us a debt of gratitude that is unpayable. Being of a military mind...you must know that for a full scale military invasion, our most efficient and productive means of attack is by air. Bombers and Naval aircraft and missles systems are the single most important weapon in conventional warfare. So how important is Iraq?
Before we invaded Iraq we had Iran surrounded on three sides.
Now that we have Iraq...if we were to invade, we would leave our backs open to Syria, the other, OTHER biggest threat in the middle east. Tell me what advantage we are gaining by fighting a guerilla war in the streets of Bahgdad?

Oh, by the way.

I voted in 1992,1996, and 2000. I voted in all my state and local elections, the primaries and will vote in November.
I regularly write letters to my Representative and Senator...on both the State and Federal level.
In 2000 I voted for Bush.

I won't make that same mistake again.



*CAV, please don't feel that this is a personal attack...I would hate to have hard feelings. I enjoy discussing strong topics such as politics and this is a political forum. Because we do not (and probably never will) agree on politics, does not mean I don't think you are a good person. I have read many of your other posts and think you are someone I would get along with just fine. The beauty of our political system is that we can hold dissenting opinions. And talk freely about them. It is our right.
 
Old 10-01-2004, 12:29 PM   #88
bpc
I haven't kept up with this thread lately. But, I wanted to throw something out there just so it's on record before it happens, if it does.

Here goes: I think there is a VERY GOOD chance that Osama Bin Laden will be captured sometime between now and the election. I think it's possible the Bush Administration knows exactly where he is, and is simply waiting to capture him so that he can be used as the ultimate trump card. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if he was already in custody.

I guess this belief stems from my absolute distrust of this administration and it's practices. I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised.
 
Old 10-01-2004, 01:02 PM   #89
Alias47
I agree...and have seen this scenario speculated on by many political analysts.

This would not redeem his wrongdoing...but it would pull the wool over the eyes of all the voting sheep in this country.

Besides, if Osama isn't captured, he is probably dead.

He is completely dependent on dialysis to live.
From the news reports...almost daily.
Which means his kidneys are in the last stages of failure.

Hard to hide a dialysis machine in a cave
 
Old 10-01-2004, 03:54 PM   #90
firehooligan
CAV: This will be my first election voting since I am only 20. And yes, I did vote in the primary's. And no the world is not safer with Bush. Kerry might not be the complete answer. I have my problems with Kerry. Bush is just an idiot and I don't want him destroying this great country.
 

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