The Death Penalty

Technically, isn't society simply exercising its right to self defense by ending the capability of a known threat to interfere with life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

Originally posted by CAV
Technically, isn't society simply exercising its right to self defense by ending the capability of a known threat to interfere with life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

Technically, the threat to society ended the day the person was incarcerated for their crimes. Killing someone who is imprisoned on death row can no longer be considered self defense. It is murder.

Capitol punishment is nothing more than legalized murder. It is certainly not a deterrent to violent crime.... based on what we see happening in our country on a daily basis.

Excellent point shrap, by murdering someone we are only condoning and promoting death. And in my book, killing is wrong, no matter what the circumstances period.

Originally posted by shrap Technically, the threat to society ended the day the person was incarcerated for their crimes. Killing someone who is imprisoned on death row can no longer be considered self defense. It is murder.

Try explaining that to the families of:

1) Victims of paroled inmates that were previously convicted and later released.

2) The families left behind after their loved one, serving as a correctional officer, was murdered by a convicted, incarcerated, and (therefore by your arguement) no longer a threat inmate.

Originally posted by shrap
Capitol punishment is nothing more than legalized murder. It is certainly not a deterrent to violent crime.... based on what we see happening in our country on a daily basis. [/b]

I disagree and so do the violent crime statistics. As of last week, crime rates for violent climes at at a thirty year low. Is it just a coincidence that the death penalty was reinstated at the begining of that time period?

Murder and the legal execution of a judical mandate in response to the committement of a violent crime are not the same things and can't be compared.

I don't know why you're comparing crime stats between now and when the death penalty was reinstated.... what about per capita crime stat comparisons between the time the death penalty was banned to the time it was reinstated?

In order.

1) People committing a crime heinous enough to be considered for the death penalty would NEVER be paroled if there was not a death penalty. It would be life in prison without the chance for parole. Manson and his crew ring a bell?? Richard Speck?? Your argument is completely irrelevant to the death penalty because those types of criminals would never see the light of day outside a prison for the rest of their lives.

2) No longer considered a threat to SOCIETY. The key word here is SOCIETY. If you CHOOSE to work as a correctional officer that is the risk you take. And you are well aware of that risk before you ever CHOOSE to take the job. And it does not take a criminal worthy of the death penalty (or life without parole) to kill a correctional officer. Every prisoner in a prison is capable of that, regardless of the crime they committed that got them there. Again, that argument is completely irrelevant to the death penalty.

3) Crime stats. That has already been partially answered...Thanks siren. The other part of that is that if you believe any stat coming from the government, particularly in an election year, I got some really awesome half gecko half snake hybrids for sale that I made in my breeder projects this hear I will sell to you.

4) Murder is murder no matter what color you paint it. The only justifiable murder is self defense or in defending the lives of your loved ones or other innocent people.

Originally posted by sirenofthestorm
I don't know why you're comparing crime stats between now and when the death penalty was reinstated.... what about per capita crime stat comparisons between the time the death penalty was banned to the time it was reinstated?

The death penalty was stuck down, reviewed and then reinstated all within the last thirty-one years. Therefore that particular statistics does in fact cover ALL crime, including the hiatus period of 1973-76.

Originally posted by shrap
That has already been partially answered...Thanks siren.

Sorry to rain on your parade, Sammy but I just invalidated argument #3. Besides it isn't election year information, it is a matter of public record and is confirmed by multiple sources, including anti-DP groups.

Oh yeah, point #1 is also false. It is possible to commute a life sentence. It happens rather frequently. We can all thank prison overcrowding for that little loophole.

it is a matter of public record and is confirmed by multiple sources, including anti-DP groups.

I can not say I have actually ever read any reports or seen stats from any anti-DP groups...so I will have to take your word for them. But trust me.....the volume of violent crime in America is still staggering. If the the DP is supposed to be a deterrent, it is not a very good one.

Oh yeah, point #1 is also false. It is possible to commute a life sentence. It happens rather frequently. We can all thank prison overcrowding for that little loophole.

Dude get real. Nobody commiting a crime that would warrant the DP would ever get commuted. Richard Speck killed 7 nurses in Chicago in the late 60's when there was not a DP. He died in prison. Same with Manson and his followers, they are all going to die in prison. To say we need the DP just in case someone commutes a mass murderer from his life sentence is just plain being ornery. Someone can just as easliy commute a death sentence. If you are going to try and make a valid point, by all means do so. But stop with the dumb sh!#.

Look Gary, I can honestly understand SOME peoples point of view on why they think we need a death penalty. I just don't agree.

Sometimes in life we just have to agree to disagree.

ok guys... we've already hashed out these points in the previous 13 pages. No one is going to change anyone's mind yet, all we can do is try to educate each other as to why we believe the things we do, and that's not what I'm seeing right now. Things are getting not so friendly in this thread, so can't we all be nice? please?

Something that disturbs me on the shows I watch (named on page 1 or 2) is that people imprisoned for voluntary manslaughter or lesser degree murder and other manslaughter charges are often only given a decade or so in prison. Sometimes these people only avoid a 1st degree charge due to a technicality.

Not all but some leave prison only to kill again. It is amazing and freakin scary how many people are caught due to their past records!

As I said I believe in my country's judicial system. I am not blind to the mistakes made by both defense and prosecution...