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Old 07-14-2010, 11:09 AM   #11
shinezilla
I'm sure there are

 
Old 07-14-2010, 11:24 AM   #12
mmdragons
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnomnami View Post
Yeah it would be nice to hear from someone with experience. Anything up to date would be nice.
Yes come on guys
 
Old 07-14-2010, 11:32 AM   #13
mmdragons
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearded Ambitions View Post
Thank you very much for this post !!!
Well done
Hey you produce llts of cool trans and stuff what do you think?
 
Old 07-14-2010, 11:39 AM   #14
Bearded Ambitions
I have only bred a trans to a trans 1 time before i was told the health would be unstable.
I bred a het hypo trans from Phantom dragons with a Trans from Bloodbank
and i only had 1 babie live out of 28 eggs.
All but 4 hatched and most didn't last past the first week.
However 1 babie did survive and it was not a visual trans ?
The babies that died were all trans to some degree even 1-2 were so amazingly clear i was so excited only to have them die.
This to me is not Proof that is cannot be done, as th long post says though the chances that my 2 trans were prob verrrryyy close in relation as this was back 3yrs ago i believe.
I got both dragons from Lair of dragons.
Hope this may shed some light.
That is the only i have crossed anything to tranz, is trans.
After i had that prob i sold both of my tranz and have been hard debating ither trying again or getting a het tranz as i have a male het tranz so it would be cool to produce some from hets to see if healthier.
 
Old 07-14-2010, 05:23 PM   #15
dragonluver83
Matt,

The outcome with the dying babies, was that from your trans to trans pairing? Or was it from the double het to trans?
 
Old 07-14-2010, 07:33 PM   #16
dragonluver83
Okay,

I re-read this a few times to try to put it together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearded Ambitions View Post
I have only bred a trans to a trans 1 time before..
Really?!?! So what was the outcome? please elaborate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearded Ambitions View Post
I bred a het hypo trans from Phantom dragons with a Trans from Bloodbank and i only had 1 babie live out of 28 eggs...
Well you bred two animals from pretty much the same guy. steven breeds and re-sells from josh's stock. So i doubt it was the trans gene the caused the problem. I dont think it was a inbreeding problem either. Not if you lost all but one. Maybe a incubation problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearded Ambitions View Post
The babies that died were all trans to some degree even 1-2 were so amazingly clear i was so excited only to have them die...
The ones that were real clear probly would have been the ones to remain clear.(Translucents) the others probly would have faded to normals within two and a weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearded Ambitions View Post
This to me is not Proof that is cannot be done...
Matt, its not that it cannot be done, it should NOT be done. Lets look at this.
Why do you inbreed dragons? To find out if there genetic traits are recessive or co-dom. In a case of theRecessivegene you have to inbreed to see if it comes out to reproduce the same or if there is a super form. (example of "super form" would be a co-dom trait) ( a example of a co-dom trait would be leatherbacks. and there "super" form is Silkbacks.
SO, it has been proven that the trans gene is recessive. And by breeders who have breed them, can tell you that the trans gene is NOT a strong gene. Translucents are NOT hypos. Hypos have been outcrossed enough to where there isnt a genetic problem with them. even if you cross hypo to hypo. This is not the same way with translucents. Even though the translucent gene has been crossed out quite a few times over, there is STILL a genetic problem with this gene. And to be honest, I think it may take twice as long to boost the translucent gene then what the hypo gene took. I was not around for the hypos being crossed out to make them a healthy cross. BUT I doubt its as bad as the trans gene. The translucents ARE getting better, but It's still going to take time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearded Ambitions View Post
This to me is not Proof that is cannot be done....
This statement is what separates you from the breeders. inexperiences, and that kind of ignorance to your hobby, makes others frown upon what we try to do. There is no need to do this unless your trying to prove something out. An it has already been done. So, why do it? Instead of trying to help a weak gene, you only make it worse. I been breeding the trans gene for two almost three years. I HAVE NOT ONCE crossed a Translucent to Translucent. nor a hypo trans to hypo trans. I know what happens when you breed a weak line (translucent)to a strong line (not translucent) And some of the babies that hatched only brought me sadness and almost to tears thinking what a waste.
I do NOT even want to think of a trans to trans!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearded Ambitions View Post
After i had that prob i sold both of my tranz and have been hard debating ither trying again or getting a het tranz as i have a male het tranz so it would be cool to produce some from hets to see if healthier.
You sold them because you ruined it for yourself. Thats what happened. I have seen some of the most beautiful dragons have the trans gene visible. And its a beautiful morph, But its not to be tampered with.
Heads up Matt, you can have less, the same amount, or more problems with even "het translucent". It depends if that particular trans has issues with its genetic trait. I.E. some trans produce beautiful healthy dragons and some trans have 30-40% problems in there bloodline and it shows when its reproduced. If you have a het trans from a weak line. it will show in its babies. if you have a trans from a healthy line it will also show in the babies.

Matt,
dont take the previous to heart. You know how i feel about you. But the trans gene is not strong enough to cross. so why cross it? do you want to see the weak unhealthy dragons? do you want to see some of the complications from this pairing? Putting a baby dragon in the freezer after it hatches is not what i like doing. Or hear about others doing! Your not doing it for research, or going to learn something someone else doesnt know from the pairing. So why do it?
 
Old 07-14-2010, 07:45 PM   #17
rpeteroy
trans to trans

Hey all, I dont know if this will help at all. I had not heard anything about these problems and started working on a special project I wanted to try. I have a huge hypo trans X marketed leucistic male from carolina dragons and a marketed leucistic (which is trans anyway) female from unknown breeder. I got about 25 eggs. I hatched about half the clutch but the female was head butting the eggs stuffing them into a corner in the nest box. Many were very loose and flimsy which I blamed the head butting, The same goes for the unhatched babies. I had about 22-25 eggs and may have hatched 10-15 babies. All but 1 were perfectly healthy and the 1 baby that didnt make it died because it never detached from the egg. I tried to tie off the umbilical cord but I think it pulled to hard on its insides. The little guy was dragging the egg around for a day. Needles to say The babies I sold were very good looking and I have not had anyone contact me saying their dragon didnt make it.

Hope this helps
 
Old 07-14-2010, 07:52 PM   #18
dragonluver83
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpeteroy View Post
Many were very loose and flimsy which I blamed the head butting,
Sounds like infertile eggs from the get go!


Quote:
Originally Posted by rpeteroy View Post
All but 1 were perfectly healthy
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpeteroy View Post
Needles to say The babies I sold were very good looking and I have not had anyone contact me saying their dragon didnt make it.
So you even sold the ones that werent healthy?
 
Old 07-14-2010, 07:56 PM   #19
Omnomnami
Quote:
So you even sold the ones that werent healthy?
He said the only unhealthy one died. The remaining dragons were healthy.
 
Old 07-14-2010, 09:36 PM   #20
spyder79
Tom

For the sake of a good discussion I have a quandary for you. So breeding a directly bred trans line to another trans line (such as was mentioned earlier where a phantom trans was bred to a bbank trans) causes fairly severe issues within the offspring of the pairing. But if you breed a trans to a het or a het to a het and then breed one of the visual trans offspring to another visual tran offspring from a different het to het pairing would it then allow for a much higher survival rate of the offspring or do you feel you would still see the high mortality rate in the clutches (granted I think all but one dieing had a lot more to do with a very genetically weak set of parents and possibly some other issues).
 

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