Zoological Imports 2000

nothing directed at you. If you have the necessary permits to buy , thats fine with me. As an individual I am sure it would not be so easy to provide the necessary qualifications that are required by the state of NY. So you are a fine example of what I would consider a legal buyer of venomous snakes. Selling of course would be a different ball game. As other things come into the picture. So we have no difficulty.

With regard to selling. If its venomous, I can assume you take the same precautions that Mario does when he sells to you. But just out of curiosity, are you a corp. in the state of NY or are you a company that is indivdually owned?

Hope you dont mind the questions? My posting was not intended to "imply any personal attack" on you or anyone else. I was basically providing an opinion on idividuals purchasing King Cobras. I am sure Mario is smart enough to make certain that whom ever he sells to, has the proper permits to obtain them.

I do have some reservations about venomous reptiles being sold from importers directly to individuals , but its more philosophical than anything else. As i indicated in my previous post, its Marios business and he can sell to whom ever he wants. If it were my business, I would not . I hope this clears up any misunderstanding, your apology is unnecessary, if anything, I dont want you to think that I have anything against people who carry hot snakes, but every now and then some people slip through the crack and thats when tragedies occur. Then I am concerned. Thank you for your reply, it was appreciated. JERRY

I have dealt with mario on more then one occasion and i couldnt think about one animal that hasnt been top notch and in perfect condition. I would say almost 50% of my collection is from marios stock. Also the facilities are the best ive seen considering the other importers ive been too. Trust me you wont be disappointed.

Aaron

That was a great reply Jerry, thanks for clearing that up..

I have seen Zoological Imports refuse to sell a green mamba to an individual who did not have sufficient experience in their opinion, even though they were overloaded with green mambas at the time and desperately needed to move them. In general ZI200 conducts themselves remarkably well and responsibly, and they go to some lengths to take decent care of their animals.

This said, the whole process of capturing and importing wild animals puts them at very high risk for illness and injury. Sometimes an importer will open the box and some snakes will be injured, dead or dying. Others may be ill but not showing overt clinical signs of illness. Most will be carrying heavy parasite loads. That's just how it is when you buy imported snakes. The importer can be the best in the world, but you will still be dealing with some serious potential veterinary issues any time you purchase a wild caught import.

Since the animals in this transaction are captive hatched, I would have no hesitation about it. I am sure these animals are being honestly represented and that they will do well.

My little ones have been successfully started on cut-up pieces of frozen/thawed ball python; no need to sacrifice a lot of baby rat snakes. I suggest semi arboreal caging with lots of artificial plant cover- baby kings are surprisingly arboreal critters and really seem to feel secure if they have a perch inside a "bush" a little ways off the ground.

have no problem whatsoever with Zoological if he sells to legal businesses. I do have a problem if he sells to individuals even if they have the necessary permits to posess them. That is nothing more than a permit or permits depending on the state regulations. That is not the same thing as having a business licence. But as I stated its just my opinion, not to be taken other than with a grain of salt.

To answer your other questions, I dont care if people want to keep poisonous snakes, nor am I opposed to shipping them. Their are always risks involved in these kinds of collections. I do have a cautious health concern about venomous snakes. But I also realize that their is a market for these animals.

As a matter of fact an old friend of mine Hank Molt is an avid collector and dealer of hot items. Ive known him for 30 years and he is still in the business. Anyway, I hope I answered your questions. Regards, JERRY

I do have a problem if he sells to individuals even if they have the necessary permits to posess them. That is nothing more than a permit or permits depending on the state regulations. That is not the same thing as having a business licence.

I'm not sure what the qualifications for a VR permit in NY are. In FL, you must have 1,000 hours of venomous experience documented by atleast two licensed keepers. You also must have your facilities and caging inspected by F&W and are subject to random inspections to make sure you are complying with their regulations.
My father is retired and recently got a business license for his home business....how exactly does that qualify him to keep cobras? I don't quite get your logic Jerry.
What does a business license have to do with someone's ability to keep venomous reptiles in a responsible manner?

Originally posted by KNOBTAIL But personally, and its only my opinion, selling King Cobras to individuals is another matter. I am not going to get into the legalities of it, but that happens to be one of the problems we have in this industry. God forbid something happens, then we all suffer. I dont know Mario and Ive never been to Zoological, but i think its irresponsible, and I dont care how experienced the purchaser thinks he may be.

I'm a she, not a he, and I keep king cobras in professional quality secure housing that is inspected by Fish and Wildlife. I feel completely comfortable working with these animals and giving them the special care and housing that they need to thrive. I also stock my own antivenom.

I agree that there are some individuals who are not responsible enough to keep a dog or a cat properly, let alone a king cobra. I do have concerns about some of these individuals getting hold of venomous snakes and causing problems for the responsible keeping community. Venomous and dangerous animals should be (and in most states, are) properly regulated and licensed, and the standards for being allowed to keep them must be intelligently applied to both public organizations and to private keepers.

I would not be happy about a zoo getting hold of a king cobra if there was no keeper at that institution sufficiently qualified to go hands-on with that animal or if their zoo veterinarian was not willing to treat it. A king cobra in a zoo where the vet won't touch it is arguably in much worse circumstances than in the hands of a private keeper who is completely comfortable handling that animal and who can provide quality veterinary care.

No one should keep king cobras who is not prepared to house them securely and to give them appropriate care including hands-on veterinary care. Some private individuals are highly qualified and fully prepared to do this, many are not. And if a public institution does not have enough keepers working there who are highly qualified, they shouldn't have the animal either.

And what happens to the animal if all of those keepers move to another institution? I've actually seen that happen in one zoo; enough of the trained snake specialist keepers left for other jobs within a months' time that there was literally no one left except the head curator who was qualified to open the venomous snake cages. That caused a few husbandry problems, as you can imagine.

There is nothing magic about being either an individual or a zoo. Snake care can be managed either well or poorly under both sets of circumstances. As a general rule there is more attention paid to strict safety protocols and to quality housing in a zoo environment, but keep in mind that a lot of the experienced venomous reptile keepers in the private sectors might have spent years working for those zoos and may know a lot more than any of the keepers who are there currently.

and if I am, then please correct me Jerry. Jerry has made his opinion clear about 1.)the keeping of venomous and 2.)ZI2000 selling to the public. However, I dont think that he meant to combine the two as a single concern. His concern regarding the keeping of veneomous is his PERSONAL opinion. His statement regarding Importers who sell directly to the public is an INDUSTRY opinion. Those of us who have been in the industry since the 80's remember a time when Importers NEVER sold to the public. It is an unwritten rule in the trade. Some people still respect those rules, and some choose to ignore them and wholesale reptiles to anybody who has a resell permit. Not to mention those who wholesale directly to the public on certain herp sites.

Im not talking about Joe Blow breeder. Im talking abot the wholsaler/importer who in my opinion should not be selling to the public. What good would it do for a store to purchase Pepsi from the company, if the customer could just call up Pepsi and order at wholesale prices? The business world does not work that way in ANY trade, so why should it work that way here?

Heres how it works. Most importers only sell to wholesalers and Stores. And many will only sell to jobbers who in turn sell to stores. L.A. Reptiles is a good example of this. Not only do they not sell to the public, they wont even sell to stores!!! This is not something that has been put in place overnight, but rather a common understanding of how business should be conducted to ensure growth and stability. Think about it. If every customer could buy direct from the importer or wholesaler, then the store owners would have to become the wholesalers to survive.

Of course the consumer will disagree and argue that they should be able to purchase wholesale. But it doesn't work that way. If it did, the industry would collapse because there would be no foundation to support it.

Just my observation.

Michael.

but i have been dealing with zoological imports as a private keeper. the only thing i see wrong with what you said is that wholesalers shouldnt sell to the public because it makes life harder for the stores. I am not positive, but i recieve the animals that zoological recieves at the prices posted on their pricelist so i am paying over wholesale, even though i dont pay the insane prices of pet shops. the reason i dont like petshops is that they mark up a baby ball python they might get for 4-6 bucks and sell it for 40 bucks. i know they need to make money, but i say if you can find a better deal on the same quality anything be it animal or some kind of meterial thing take it. I know i am not getting the best price from any of the wholesalers, but i do like the fact that i can get a price that better corresponds with what an animal is worh.

Aaron

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...threadid=31526

A link to a previous discussion about Jerry's thoughts on the industry structure and wholesale practices. Just so this thread doesn't get off subject TOoooooo much