Zoological Imports 2000

Hello again Mr. Tresser:

So if Zoological Imports 2000 only sold venomous to other businesses in the "trade", who do you think these businesses would be selling to? Just because a person owns a business and is involved in the "trade", how does that make that person any more qualified to own and/or handle venomous. I personally have no problem with an "individual" owning venomous as long as no laws are being broken in his/her state.

I do however totally understand and respect your opinion.

Just my "two cents" worth!

Thank you.

David Rivers

enough to call me Jerry. I think your 100% correct. I know alot of individuals who could teach the importers and wholesalers about alot of things related to Herps. Especially the husbandry!

But you raise an interesting question as to who would buy these hot snakes. I think we both can agree aside from institutions such as zoos, etc. its the individual market that is making the demand.

My only reservation and their are 3 relate to a chain of command from the importer to the end user, the ability to skirt legal rules and regulations that govern venomous reptiles and finally which is a hot issue unto itself, tax liabilities.

So thats it DAVID, my contention with the way the industry is heading, is a pessimistic one. Until their are some controls instituted to deleneate who is who in this trade, and how we can prevent someone from having 27 email addresses, 32 different names, and remain anonymous concerns me, and if their dealing with venomous reptiles it concerns me more so. My sincerest regards, JERRY

As two of Mario's previous employees/customers/volunteers, we can unanimously agree that he is a great guy. Having maintained both the venomous and non-venomous rooms down there at ZI2000, we know first hand of the quality that mario brings in. It is true, as soon as an animal arrives it is treated promptly, all imported stuff is kept in seperate rack systems and areas from the CB stuff. Venomous is treated accordingly and with respect and all animals that will eat are fed.
As far as him selling to the general public, mario is definately very selective. You cannot just find his company, call, and then expect to be able to go and hand pick things. You really need to build repoire with him before he begins to allow you in to his facility. His selectivity is what stops the industry from falling apart.
As people delve further and further into the hobby, they look for ways to increase their collections and maintain animals without spending ridiculous sums of money. It is these hobbyists who go to the shows, contact importers and wholesalers and begin to purchase from them. We are those kind of people who were in the right place at the right time and have had the chance opportunity to get to meet mario and even work at the facility.
Furthermore these hobbyists are the people who have begun to understand what the retail market is and how it involves double markup and they know that they can obtain animals for much cheaper. At this point hobbyists understand what an import is and how to deal with it.
There is nothing that stops importers/wholesalers from having tables at shows or even selling online so there should be no reason they should not be allowed to sell to individuals. The hobbyists mentioned above are most likely to go to a show and find these importers/wholesalers rather than actively seek them out. If you think that its wrong contact the shows but no one ever stops strictly reptiles, burgandy, xtreme or any of them from going and no one ever complains about their presence. Every person in the reptile community fills a niche just like in the natural world and there is definately room for everybody.

Bottom Line: Mario=Great Guy with great quality animals(herps and non herps), his mammals are awesome!!! Selling to individuals is ok.

Originally posted by KNOBTAIL
I dont know if that is the exception or the rule. Nor do I know how many individuals are holding these lethal weapons in their posession without the necessary qualifications to carry these kinds of animals. Its also possible I may be reading into this unnecessarily, and that their really is no problem.

I would not suggest that there is no problem. There are many people who own venomous snakes, legally or illegally, who do not meet what I consider to be the minimum standards of professional quality housing and handling safety protocol, let alone husbandry. That's a nice way of saying that there are some shockingly inbred yahoos out there whose general demeanor is reminiscent of Beavis and Butthead on a bad day. And they have pet rattlesnakes that they think are really cool, huh huh. Yes, I think that's a problem.

However it's not a problem in the way some people seem to think it is. A snake is a highly ineffective weapon in the sense that it is almost impossible to turn on an innocent bystander. Despite many decades of venomous snake ownership in the US, there are to the best of my knowledge no recorded bites to non involved bystanders from captive venomous snakes. Bite victims were invariably voluntarily handling or voluntarily approaching the snake, touching/handling the cage, etc. This reflects roughly the same statistics of snake envenomations in the wild - most are in the "illegitimate" category, which is to say the human was attacking or approaching the snake and not the other way around.

There are some legitimate bites in the wild that are truly accidental, involving a person who was not looking where they were sitting or stepping or reaching. They are vastly outnumbered by the other kind however. I have no doubt that should enough venomous snake escapes occur, eventually we will see a truly legitimate bite from an escaped venomous snake - but a lot of these cases will have to occur, as the behavior of a disoriented escapee or relocated animal is measurably not the same as the behavior of an animal in the wild that is well adjusted to its habitat.

I think that there is a potential problem of which we should be aware, and as responsible reptile keepers we should take steps to encourage others to meet good standards of safety and responsibility. But I don't think the problem is quite as awful as some ophidiphobes seem to believe it is. An escaped venomous snake is definitely not a good thing, but neither will it immediately head for the nearest widows, nuns and orphans home to envenomate as many people as possible.

What we can extrapolate from telemetry studies of displaced snakes suggests that the animal will move in random directions until it is exhausted, failing to feed or thermoregulate properly, its immune system severely depressed, until it adjusts or more likely until it dies. All of this assumes that the climate is optimal for its survival; if this is not true, then the odds go down significantly for its survival during this period of disorientation.

The biggest problem with unqualified people keeping venomous snakes is that they themselves will be bitten. That's the problem we need to focus on as a community. Realistically we cannot stop anyone from keeping venomous snakes who is truly determined to do so. However we can help educate these people on good safety tools and techniques that will help them avoid a bite. They are much more likely to accept and to use such information than they are to stop keeping entirely, so I would suggest focusing on safety education rather than deterrence.

The biggest problem with unqualified people keeping venomous snakes is that they themselves will be bitten.

In due time, natural selection inevitably takes its course.

also like to add that one of the other big problem is the ability of these people to get the snakes in the first place!

I dont know if their is some kind of a "status symbol" tied into hot snakes, but their are alot of morons floating around. Just recently some lunatic had a lion or tiger in their apt. in Harlem of all places. A little ridiculous to say the least, but people sometimes will go through great lengths to acquire these animals. I am not knowledgeable about the de-fanging of poisonous snakes, but that also adds to the mystique .

The point I have attempted to bring out really goes beyond Zoological Imports. I am sure Mario knows what he is doing, but I wonder about his clientel and how legit they are after reading Hard2Findherps thread.

I can tell you this much, the day will come when alot of things are going to change in this industry, and they will not be for the better. The pet industry and I am referring to Herps. has lost its identity within its dealings between people. Theirs alot to be said, and I dont want to persue this avenue any longer. I thank you for your intellegent post and good observations. JERRY

I had asked a simple question in regards to the quality of someones animals and their customer service, and now its turned into the questioning of someones reasons for keeping these animals. I am just curious how that all happened? I do agree that some people shouldnt have certain animals, especially when it is for ego or "to be the cool kid on the block". This was not my reason for asking questions here. I believe the thread has now gone way off topic. Questioning someones ability to keep or reasons for keeping certain animals is not the issue here. Besides, when the laws change and its harder to get these animals, do you really think people wont get them anyway? Many people are incapable of driving a car, but they still do. Anyway, thank you all who replied to my original question. All who have said nice things about Mario and Zoological were correct. I have in fact spoken with Mario, and he seems to be a very nice guy. He was very professional and very informative as well. I have closed my deal with him, and now eagerly await the new animals. Thank you Mario if you read any of this.

Originally posted by Urban Jungles
In due time, natural selection inevitably takes its course.

Unfortunately part of that course is more restrictive laws that will prevent responsible people from keeping *any* snakes at all. That's why I don't want to see the Beavis and Butthead wannabes get bitten, no matter how much they probably deserve it. It's not that I care so much about whether or not idiots lose their fingers. I care about the rest of us potentially losing our rights when cases like that hit the press.

Originally posted by KNOBTAIL also like to add that one of the other big problem is the ability of these people to get the snakes in the first place!

That certainly is an issue, but I think Zoological Imports has shown more good sense and responsibility than most dealers in helping out with this problem.

The problem with deciding whether or not to sell a venomous snake to anyone is that you just don't know everyone personally. If somebody talks a good game and claims to have worked with cobras for 10 years, when in fact this is not true, what is the dealer's responsibility in this case?

Unless the buyer is very clearly incompetent or a minor, how can the dealer determine whether they are telling the truth about their handling ability? Do you expect the dealer to personally inspect every customer's facility and test his or her handling skills? I don't think that is a realistic expectation. If the would be customer is intoxicated, underage or otherwise clearly demonstrates incompetence, the sale should be refused by the dealer. Otherwise, the responsibility has to be on the customer.

I am not knowledgeable about the de-fanging of poisonous snakes, but that also adds to the mystique.

De-fanging a snake doesn't work and is likely to result in severe stomatitis, osteomyelitis (bone infection), systemic septicaemia and death. Fangs do regrow and a snake may have one or more fangs fully developed in reserve, positioned immediately behind the one that is currently in use. Some bite wounds from crotalids may show three or even four puncture wounds due to this phenomenon. (M. Petersen, NAVC lecture on crotaline envenomation, 2004)

This is what happens when an idiot in Africa crudely attempts to de-fang a snake: http://www.kingsnake.com/snakegetter...vet/index.html We could not save this particular patient as the infection had progressed throughout the animal's body and osteomyelitis had basically eaten up its skull by the time the case got to us. Another patient that we did save was kindly donated to our veterinary rescue team immediately after she was found in this condition by Mario: http://www.kingsnake.com/snakegetter...mamba-jaw.html Thank you, Mario, for giving this little girl a chance. She's doing just fine now albeit with some scarring. And no, none of this abuse happened at Mario's facility; the animals I have seen come in with this kind of severe capture trauma look like this right out of the box.

If you're talking about the practice of venomoiding or removing/ligating venom glands and ducts, that's an equally nasty business that is typically done by profit minded amateur butchers illegally under unsterile conditions with inadequate drugs and tools. It's not something that any responsible reptile keeper or dealer should be supporting.

I really would not like to refute anything tanyth is saying as I know she is very capable and highly knowlegeable about the handling and captive husbandry of venomous snakes. I failed to mention it in my first thread but tanyth told already of the mamba she rescued.
I guess what Id really like to know is what did my thread say that made knobtail question marios legitimacy??? I said he was highly selective of who actually came to him meaning that you cannot just go to Zoological and expect to be let in. Im really confused. Please fill me in.