*Off Topic* Fix to my brumation problem w/ Western Hognose?

hey ross

ild definately recommend talking to terry dunhum (albino tricolors), hes been working with tricolors for many years (and exotic finches before herps) in the warm state of Florida. i remember him telling me a few years back when i was working with albino nelsoni and other milks, about how he uses old wine coolers to brumate all his snakes with pretty decent success? i think he had some problems with pyros though (they need it much cooler than the average milksnake like 45-55F/60F?). just trying to help, lates

-jon

Just add a large container of water in there, up your humidity. Not to mention maybe using moist peat-moss for substrate, spray it down as it dries.

also Ross contact steven hammack.... he bred hognoses and is here in texas... or maybe john cherry, i bet they can help

Originally Posted by wilomn

Interesting questions John. I've got some corns, this year will be generation 8, that I have been experimenting with. Some I cool and some I don't and feed all winter. Last year was the first time I tried it and the corns I cooled had larger clutches and more of them double clutched than the ones I did not cool at all.

That's cool information, I get those same results from species that "need" to brumate; better production=larger clutches and/or multiple breedings if they were brumated vs not brumated. I wonder if there would be any significant difference from a pair of Corns from a more tropical area like extreme South Florida. I also wonder how much difference if any between WC and subsequent cb generations.

Originally Posted by wilomn

I've only got 1.2 hogs that I'll be breeding this year. All wc from texas. I've had them about 5 years now. One female was a monster and has never laid an egg. Last year I found two little slugs that were hers. The smaller female has bred the last three years and double clutched the last two. I always cool them. .

Interesting. I would be curious to know if the large female would produce if you didn't brumate her. Have you been brumating them the same (temps and duration) as your other colubrids? It would be interesting if this WC gal is from an area where "true brumation" was rare or transient, and the cooler species brumation is actually detrimental to her breeding.

hmmmmmm........makes me want to go back to the smitty days and break out the pencil and paper (a la Ron) and do a study.
Anyway, I'd be interested in your results this year, and especially next year if you do that with the Hognose, so keep in touch.

Ross,I think local has alot to do with it,that is why i bought hogs that were S.Texas local.I live in MN so it gets cold enough but i do not like to cool them.I know people how use OLD friges like 70s models and they work great,no drying anything out.

I guess it is a whole lot easier for us here in the North East.... Sorry I could not help you out more, but I never had to put a snake in the fridge...... LOL..... The only thing I use a refridgerator is to either keep my food cold or I add a heating element to turn it into an incubator..... Anyway, good luck....

I have feild collected here in Texas for over a decade and have found that even in southern Texas the reptiles brumate for at least 2 months, today the highs in south texas are in the 50"s and 60's , if you look at the yearly almanacs it will show that even starting in November lows reach into the 60's:

High's Low's Mean Sunrise / set
NOV 80-73 62-55 67' 6:39-6:59 / 5:48 - 5:38
DEC 73-68 55-50 62
JAN 68-70 50-51 60
FEB 70-75 51-56 63 7:14-6:54 / 6:14 - 6:31

What would be best for this species is brumating them 55-60's for 2-3 months, with a photoperiod of only 4-6hours or no light at all. Even in your warmer states these species experience a drop into the 60's at night as early as november, the daily highs are still in the 80's but nightime lows are much lower. Which is usuallly typical with desert ,arid and tropical locations. In fact look at Mexico City, there winters are only in the 70's for highs but at night there averages are in the mid to low 40's. Many species I have found espeically the mexican milks and kings do much better if there nightime lows are reduced. My ruthveni are now at 70's and drop into the 60's at nights, I provide a heat strip that is only turned on in the day to similate basking that reaches 85's or so. If I let my ruthveni get into the 70's with no drop in temps, I start to experience fertility problems. I believe the same is similar for many hognose species, I only have collected them on cool morning and evenings here in Texas, so obviously they avoid the heat. In the dead of summers they become very scarce, possible spending most of there time underground.If you use a fridge put a water dish in it nd take them out and soak them every 3 weeks, this is what I do with all my colubrids to make sure they stay adequatly hydrated, usually 30-40min in cold tapwater works, they really don't warm up much and I haven't had any negative effects from disturbing them during this time etc.
Hope this helps.
Justin Mitcham

Another point I forgot to mention is that even in the summer in tropical regions the nightime lows are significantly lower than most realize, even in the dead of summer the avearge lows are only in the low to mid 50's.
Justin Mitcham

Thanks for the reply Justin... So does this mean that you have had success using the fridge method with a water pan and soaks?

Thanks again.

Yes, I tried keeping my animals in a refrigerator on two seperate occasions, both times it worked well.Although you may want to install a heat strip hooked to a themostat in case it gets too low this will prevent them from freezing until you fix the problem. 1st Time I tried it during the winetr we had a big cold frontNow during the winter I block all the vents in my home except for a redone bathroom and I turn on the AC when I need it, I leave a small window cracked and a vent on to keep air circulating from outside. The room ranges from 40-55 with the avearge being around 50', this does fine, with the small amont of lght comming in it sets a natural photoperiod. I brumated this year from dec 13 - feb 14 . With a two week pre-cool down starting dec 1. This is done by halting all feeding, and turning off there heat pads, room heat etc..
Justin