Albino Ball Python Died!!

What happened to:

I ask that you please keep this thread on topic and if you feel the need to address other issues please either start a new thread or email me. I would like to keep this free of insinuations, insults, threats and allegations.

Because Neil has formed an opinion based on what's in the thread, now it's about Neil's integrity? Did he have anything to do with this animal?

OK, nip it right here. This thread will NOT become an Adam versus Neil thread.

Adam - there are PLENTY of threads about Neil that you can use for quotes about and from him. They do not need to be here.

Neil - please use email when it would be more appropriate than posting something publicly here.

If anyone wants to talk about anything other than this specific instance of an Albino ball dying or something directly related to this issue, please start your own thread about the new topic.

Thanks.

You are correct and I do apologize! I asked Neil a question on page 4 and felt his responce while avoiding everything else asked of him was only to cause trouble as Neil has made his points clear and those points aren't the issue at hand.

Sorry webslave,
Adam Block

Two quick things I'd like to address:

The first is now moot because the seller/breeder has already identified himself. However, if I'm not mistaken, the BOI is for inquiries about specific companies/people and names are to be cited. Adam, I understand your position of not wanting to smear someone's name needlessly, but that is what the General Business Forum is provided for. True, you addressed the possibility that this might need to be elsewhere eventually, but I would suggest that it belonged in the GBF and from there might be posted to the BOI in part or in whole. Even so, as I stated above, it is a moot point given the way things have played themselves out; I would just hate to see a precedent established here.

The second is this: What about the apparent inconsistencies of the time line you've offered, Adam? I'm certain that there is a reason for the differences you've cited in the time frame, but I think you need to address this for us all. First the snake's picture was taken within five days of dying, then it was taken about an hour before (or was it after?) it regurged its last meal (and you had previously stated that the last regurge preceeded death by about twelve hours). Now, it is true that twelve hours is "within five days," but this hardly seems to explain the odd manner of description inconsistencies. Any help you can offer would be appreciated here.

Let me just say this. Adam and I have locked horns on the BOI before. It has been quite personal in the past, and I have absolutely no intention of allowing it to get that way again. I have spoken with Adam on the phone (for quite some time while standing in the cold without a jacket, thank you very much Adam!), and I take him to be a basically honest person who, at times, simply has a different way of looking at things than do I and has made some decisions that I would certainly not have made. However, I do not believe that Adam has gone about to cheat NERD, nor do I think that he is intentionally being deceptive here. I just wanted to say those things so that you all will understand where I am coming from when I ask for the above clarification about the time line.

As I'd said before the timeline that I'd laid out was there to give a basic idea of the period we were looking at. I was meaning to lay it out in a month/year format and I myself confused that as a month/day format. I was trying to relay that the snake was in my care three days after it was purchased.

With regard to the photo. I wanted to get some idea as to the consensus of the animals appearance. That's why I mentioned the photo was taken within 5 days of the animals death instead of posting the exact day the photo was taken. Having this issue arise on a weekend night I took the photo as I felt it not only reflected the snake’s health at that time but was also the only photo I'd had of the snake to that point. I'd intended to contact James Jarchow the following day to see if I could take her in to be looked at.

When I woke I checked on the snake only to find her dead. When I went to bed she was still alive and I don't sleep well (6-7 hours tops) so I assumed when I found her she'd been dead less then 6 hours. At that point I put the snake in the fridge as it was Sunday and the UofA wouldn't be open until the following day. Promptly Monday Morning she was taken directly to the UofA so the necropsy could be performed.

Does that clear things up a little?

I don't intend to get off track at all with this issue. I'm not upset about this in the least. I feel as if the ethics behind the sale of this snake come into question and have done nothing more then decide to probe deeper to find if there are any other things that back this up besides the snake I'm speaking of and the 282 gram two year old I've heard they sold well undersize.

Adam Block

Let me see if I have this time line correct:

8/02 The Python hatched in New England(exact date unk?)

8/17-18/02 Taken to the show in Daytona From New England(do we know how?)

8/22-23/02 Adam receives the Python in Arizona(where was it prior to this time.. We know with a partner, but where was it kept, how was it brought to you?)

The python appeared okay and ate 5 times (once a week?)

After the 5th or 6th time eating, it regurgitated 2 days later

Within 12 hours it died.

If my math is correct from what I gather from the post, this would have placed it dying the very end of Sept or very early Oct. That would have made it under 2 months old

It also seems this would have placed a hatchling traveling for over a week either by plane, but I think from what I have picked up, by auto/truck.

Is this correct? Please correct or fill in any dates that are wrong

Now it has all come to a head. Adam, your trying to insinuate that this make believe genetic problem is with N.E.R.D.'s animals. Kevin and NERD are some of the most well known and respected breeders and sellers in the Reptile industry today. Now I know why you would not state their name because it really shows that the possibility of a genetic problem is not there. I would suggest that you take this whole situation and learn from it. Something happened to the snake while it was in your care. There is no responsibility on Kevin or NERD PERIOD.

I have read through this thread and found it very interesting. I do not know what may have happened here for sure, in fact none of us do. I do know that whether you like Kevin or not, his collection (especailly ball pythons) is second to none. The quality can be seen just by looking at his displays at shows. I know his animals are kept in the best caging and under all of the right conditions. As far as i am concerned there is no misrepresention of any animals that he sells. This is the first time i have ever heard of a problem with animals from this company in the 15 years i have been in this business. Like i said, exactly what happened to this animal, who knows? I just don't feel like anyones company should suffer from this forum if it is not completely backed up.

"I just don't feel like anyones company should suffer from this forum if it is not completely backed up."

Let me just say that people (and/or their companies) do not "suffer from this forum" unless one of two (or both) scenarios is/are true:


1. Proof is offered by an injured party which shows the person in question to be a "bad guy" in the true sense of the term

Or . . .

2. Someone who has been accused acts a fool and causes everyone's opinions of him to drop precipitously


These are the only two ways I have ever seen a person's reputation be damaged here on the BOI. I have seen variations on these two themes over and again, but it is always well deserved whenever someone's reputation suffers, in my opinion.

I'm not saying either party in this discussion has damaged his reputation by what has thus far been posted. I just wanted to address what was worrying the poster above.

Regardless of what Kevin's or Adam's reputations may be, looking at this based on what has been said by the two parties involved, the evidence is inconclusive as to who was responsible for the snake's demise. I think it is illogical to say that it could not possibly be Kevin's fault simply because he is Kevin. The man has a good reputation, a lot of people know who he is, but that does not make him infallible.