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Old 11-15-2004, 07:42 PM   #81
oreganus
There you go again.....

Quote:
Originally posted by snakegetters
Naaah, he thinks I'm just a cranky old lady for being concerned about minor little details like that.




Kevin keeps saying that I'm just making up the fact that venomoid operations are not 100% reliable especially when performed by non veterinarians. He likes to ignore the evidence and the statements of well respected and well published reptile veterinarians who have verified re-fissuring after ductectomy and failed/partial adenectomies that have left the animals able to deliver significant envenomation. He doesn't care, and he'll keep right on selling people botched venomoids until somebody gets killed.

One of his unhappy customers came on here reporting that Kevin sold him a "venomoid" canebrake that was still quite capable of envenomating and killing prey. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...&threadid=8527

Most likely he will also go right on shipping venomous snakes illegally, again until somebody gets killed. Personally I think it would be a good idea to put this guy in jail before he can do any more damage to our community.
Tanith,
where is your prove besides your rabid anti-venomoid attitude?? You like to throw accusations about me and venomoids in general, but where is the proof to back up your statements. If I have ever sold a "botched" venomoid, you go ahead and show the proof, surely there would be proof by now. The venomoids I sell are 100%, not 99%, but 100%. The person you are claiming as proof is exactly as his username implied, SHADY. I believe there are other threads about him that verify that. Also, he was selling that same snake he claimed was "hot" as a venomoid shortly after he posted that garbage. You also claim there are instances of "verified re-fissuring " with snakes that came from me, go ahead, show us all proof of this happening. I garauntee the snake(s) in question did not come from me. Show us your documents from a vet and the proof the snake or snakes were purchased from me. On top of that, didn't you post some outrageous claim about your "vet" not being able to distinguish the muscle tissue from the venom ducts in a snake?? I believe several people called BS on that. All your claims are so outrageous given your lack of any proof whatsoever, that it is quite pathetic. Everyone calls for proof all the time on here, so go ahead, show us all proof that I sell less that 100% venomoids and you have vet documents to back up regeneration or refissuring in snakes that came from me.
Kevin Smith

PS- for everyone else in this thread, this is not about venomoids, this is about the accusation Jeremy made against me. I believe Brian is correct in asking that there is proof provided, I am also waiting on Jeremy to prove his case, I don't have to prove anything, because I am not making the accusations. If someone posts something negative on here, they should at least show proof, that is the same standards I was held to in other threads, so it shouldn't be any different with anyone else.
 
Old 11-15-2004, 08:11 PM   #82
Rakshasanyc
If I have ever sold a "botched" venomoid, you go ahead and show the proof, surely there would be proof by now. The venomoids I sell are 100%, not 99%, but 100%.

DISCLAIMER: I don't own any hots, venomoids or venomous. I don't know whether or not you shipped that venomoid king via UPS or Delta. I'm not siding with or against you on that one, pending further evidence for or against you. Nor am I as militantly anti-venomoid as some of the people posting here. However...

I've rarely heard ANY kind of medical professional offer a "100%, not 99% but 100%" guarantee on any medical operation. There are simply too many variables to take into account when dealing with living things, and there are case histories which suggest that venom glands can regenerate in some animals under some conditions. If you're 100% sure that your animals are "all venomoid, all the time," I'm curious as to how you can make that guarantee.

I'm also curious as to what kind of anesthetic you use for your venomoid operations, and what kind of sterilization techniques you use for the instrumentation used to remove the venom glands?

Kevin Filan
0.1 albino Burmese Python (Ayida-Wedo)
 
Old 11-15-2004, 08:20 PM   #83
schlegelii
UPS Tracking number

There had been a few requests for proof of a tracking number, well here is the number 1Z 0A3 16F A3 0001 737 1. UPS still has the info on the shipment. If you look back to previously posted e-mails you will see that the date corresponds. Please feel free to investigate yourself.

Jeremy

Picture on the way.
 
Old 11-15-2004, 08:22 PM   #84
snakegetters
Re: There you go again.....

Quote:
Originally posted by oreganus

If I have ever sold a "botched" venomoid, you go ahead and show the proof, surely there would be proof by now.
You mean other than the thread I already posted? Ray, did that botched Papuan black snake come from Kevin, or was that a Rich Richey hack job?


Quote:
The venomoids I sell are 100%, not 99%, but 100%. The person you are claiming as proof is exactly as his username implied, SHADY.
Everyone who complains about Kevin's illegal dealings is of course "shady". It's funny how many "shady" people there are on the BOI complaining about you. LOL But of course you can explain them all away as liars, while you're always telling the unvarnished truth.


Quote:
You also claim there are instances of "verified re-fissuring " with snakes that came from me, go ahead, show us all proof of this happening.
The circumstances under which I will be glad to show proof are outlined on my web page. I have discussed this subject at length with several well known, well published and respected reptile veterinarians. It would not be courteous or professional to drag their names into a venomoid flamewar. I'd like to make sure that these doctors remain willing to talk to me, and causing them that degree of annoyance isn't the way to do it.

What I will be glad to do is share their contact information with your veterinarian, so that your veterinarian may have a professional dialogue with these other doctors who will verify that they have seen these things firsthand. If your veterinarian knows anything about reptile medicine, reads any of the reptile medicine journals, etc, he or she will recognize these names immediately and already know how to contact them.

I welcome contact from any licensed veterinarian and I will provide professional references. Those references will positively convince any veterinarian that re-fissuring in ductectomy is a known occurrence documented by knowledgeable and respected researchers.


Quote:
On top of that, didn't you post some outrageous claim about your "vet" not being able to distinguish the muscle tissue from the venom ducts in a snake??
After opening and exploring the heads of a dead viper and a dead elapid, my veterinarian stated that he had difficulty distinguishing the gland tissue from a muscle structure located near the base of the fang that was similar in appearance and texture. He further stated that cutting or removing this muscle could make it more difficult for the snake to achieve voluntary contracture in this area, and consequently the snake might not be able to reliably express venom from the gland for some time.


Quote:
Everyone calls for proof all the time on here, so go ahead, show us all proof that I sell less that 100% venomoids and you have vet documents to back up regeneration or refissuring in snakes that came from me.
Quite cheerfully will I share proof with any licensed veterinarian who contacts me. I encourage them to do so. In fact I offer the additional bonus of a free manual on the safe restraint of venomous and dangerous snakes to any veterinarian who would like to contact me to get these professional references.

What I won't do is let the idly curious tie up any of these veterinarians' office phones with questions about venomoids. You need to have a client-patient relationship with a veterinarian before he or she can reasonably be expected to take the time to answer your questions. So if you have a client-patient relationship with a veterinarian, you may encourage that vet to contact me. I will facilitate a professional vet to vet dialogue for them with some of the well known names in reptile medicine who can verify what I have said about venomoids.

I feel that this is a reasonable and professional way to provide proof to anyone who is interested enough to discuss this matter with their veterinarian.
 
Old 11-15-2004, 08:26 PM   #85
Jungle Gems
This may be a little easier...

...so everyone does not have to go to UPS.com. Maybe I'm overlooking it but I don't see the location that the package was sent FROM.



Status: Delivered
Delivered on: May 8, 2004 10:34 A.M.

Signed by: MOLT
Location: RESIDENTIAL
Delivered to: PORT JEFFERSON STATION, NY, US
Tracking Number: 1Z 0A3 16F A3 0001 737 1
Service Type: NEXT DAY AIR

Package Progress:

Date/Time Location Activity

May 8, 2004
10:34 A.M.
FARMINGVILLE, NY, US
DELIVERY

Tracking results provided by UPS: Nov 15, 2004 8:23 P.M. Eastern Time (USA)
 
Old 11-15-2004, 08:45 PM   #86
oreganus
Lightbulb this isn't....

a big discussion about venomoids. I understand your questions and point of view on it. That is true that there is no 100% with anything over a period of many years. I was only stating that the snakes I have sold have a 100% record, there is not one instance of verifiable proof that Tanith can show that any of the snakes I have sold were "botched". If she could prove her made up assesments of things, she would have posted proof sometime on some forum, but she can't, so she doesn't. It is funny how antivenomoid people can make up so much to try and prove their point, which is even funnier because alot of people will buy into the BS without seeing any proof of anything. I understand your questions and I am not going to go into a great discussion about the surgery or the specifics of it. This is not the thread or the place for such a discussion. I know I will get flames for that, but life goes on. As for the original topic of this thread, I am waiting on proof also, it would especially be interesting since I know what I did and what I didn't do. If I did what I am accused of, I doubt if I would have asked for proof over and over again.
Thanks
Kevin Smith
 
Old 11-15-2004, 08:59 PM   #87
oreganus
Lightbulb Thank you for sharing that tracking info...

That is quite interesting, I wonder where he got that tracking number and it is also interesting that the last name happens to be "Molt", I think this is simply a case of how far people will go to lie about the situation and the truth there of. The plot thickens.
For Tanith,
Ofcourse you have an excuse not to show documented proof of any "botched" snake that came from me. You won't ever be able to do that, so I don't know why you keep trying. Okay, well I know why, you are so determined not to be proved wrong that you will say anything to try and prove your BS. I have looked at your website and I have not seen anywhere proof that I sold a botched snake or a single documented case of where regeneration or refissuring has occurred in a snake I have sold. If I am wrong, please show me proof. As for the "papuan black snake" I have never had possesion of one, nor have I ever heard anything about that incident. Feel free to provide a link of that discussion, it would be very interesting to read.
Kevin Smith
 
Old 11-15-2004, 09:42 PM   #88
snakegetters
Re: this isn't....

Quote:
Originally posted by oreganus I was only stating that the snakes I have sold have a 100% record, there is not one instance of verifiable proof that Tanith can show that any of the snakes I have sold were "botched".
Of course that customer complaining that the "venomoid" you send him was envenomating his prey isn't really proof. It's just one more "shady" person complaining about the illegal doings of Kevin Smith. Kevin's the white and shining angel here, and all the rest of us are "shady" if we have a problem with him. LOL

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...&threadid=8527

Quote:
If she could prove her made up assesments of things, she would have posted proof sometime on some forum, but she can't, so she doesn't.
I encourage anyone who desires proof to ask their veterinarian to contact me and obtain it. But no veterinarian is going to share their patient case histories with any layperson who asks. Nor would it be appropriate to ask them to do so. I can provide very solid references to any veterinarian who is willing to participate in an appropriate professional dialogue. But I will not post contact information for any veterinarian in an inappropriate and unprofessional manner. I will show proof in a manner that is fair and courteous to the veterinarians who are being asked to provide it.

My statement is that *any* venomoid "operation" cannot be considered 100% reliable, particularly a ductectomy which may re-fissure. A professionally performed adenectomy that is done thoroughly and completely by a licensed veterinarian is an unlikely case for regeneration. However if any scrap of gland tissue is missed, there is the potential for both regrowth and envenomation. There are too many anecdotal reports about "venomoids" that can still envenomate not to be seriously concerned about the number of botch jobs that are going around.

Can I specifically trace the botch jobs to Kevin, other than the customer complaint already posted on the BOI? Not at the moment, but I expect this could change. There is some very telling information about the mortality rate of his "operations" on some of the other threads here I've posted links to, as well as evidence that Kevin really doesn't know how to use basic veterinary tools or skills. Read and enjoy.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...threadid=30568

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...threadid=28577



Quote:
It is funny how antivenomoid people can make up so much to try and prove their point, which is even funnier because alot of people will buy into the BS without seeing any proof of anything.
Please encourage your veterinarian to contact me for proof. Oops, you don't have a veterinarian - you're the do-it-yourself snake chopping guy. You are aware that practicing surgery on animals for profit is totally illegal without a veterinary license, right?


Quote:
I understand your questions and I am not going to go into a great discussion about the surgery or the specifics of it. This is not the thread or the place for such a discussion.
Translation: I'm doing illegal, inhumane things to snakes in my garage when I get time off from burger flipping. I don't want to talk about the illegal stuff I'm doing, especially the illegal shipping of venomous snakes through the mail, and the illegal drugs I have to use to immobilize the snakes for surgery without bothering with actual pain medication. I especially don't want to admit that I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to actually giving veterinary care to a snake, since I've posted some remarkably stupid things in the past on this subject that have clearly demonstrated my total ignorance.

Sure is funny all the stuff Kevin doesn't want to talk about. I hope this translation will help people understand what he isn't saying. LOL
 
Old 11-15-2004, 09:45 PM   #89
The BoidSmith
Amazed!

Jeremy,

It really takes courage to post the information that confirms that you had a King cobra shipped UPS to New York. The dates match as you received from Kevin the e-mail in the quote on 5/1, and you received the package on 5/8.

Quote:
I understand, here it is:

From : Mister Doe
Sent : Saturday, May 1, 2004 2:34 PM
To : thereptiledoctor@hotmail.com
Subject : RE: Message about : Screamer subadult king cobra for sale w/pics!

Jeremy,

I didn't get a chance to ship to you. Something came up and I didn't get there in time. Is there any other day that you can pick it up?? OR I am thinking I can triple bag the snake and ship it UPS to your door. Ordinarily I would only ship delta, but I think it would make it easier for both of us. I have never had a problem shipping reptiles UPS, so it would be fine as long as the person recieving it knows what is in the box it is fine. let me know.
thanks
Kevin
What is missing though is your reply to the e-mail above that should go right here.

As here is Kevin's reply to your e-mail:

Quote:
From : Mister Doe
Sent : Tuesday, May 4, 2004 11:00 PM
To : thereptiledoctor@hotmail.com
Subject : RE: Message about : Screamer subadult king cobra for sale w/pics!


Hey, no worries, that is fine. Just give me the address and I will have it out for whatever day you would like. I have had to ship UPS before and have never had a problem. Let me know.
thanks
Kevin
What did you answer for him to say: "no worries, that is fine", and "I will have it out for whatever day you would like", and "I have had to ship UPS before and have never had a problem. Let me know."?

Don't worry, you haven't answered this question before and I don't expect you to do it now. In fact we all know the answer.
 
Old 11-15-2004, 10:06 PM   #90
bcfos
A tracking number doesn't prove anything. Lets see some photographic proof.
 

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