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Veterinarian Practice & General Health Issues Anything to do with veterinarians, health issues, pathogens, hygiene, or sanitation.

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Old 01-24-2018, 10:24 PM   #11
Arctophile117
I'm not sure where husbandry comes into this argument, seeing as you know nothing of the gear, decor, safety features of my snake's enclosure, etc., except maybe to toss little "hot words" out there in order to catch people's eye. At this point, you're harrassing, so please leave me alone.
 
Old 01-24-2018, 10:25 PM   #12
Arctophile117
Oops, I didn't realize that first one took. Sorry for the accidental spam, my phone is being slow at the moment.
 
Old 01-24-2018, 10:47 PM   #13
Donald C
By husbandry, I am taking in animal health and well-being, not just enclosure and the rest. A venomoid operation requires delicate operation around other critical areas on the animal. Aside from any risk to the animal from an accident during the operation, there is the pain and suffering of the animal during recovery process, from a procedure that was medically unnecessary.

I am not jumping down your throat here, or attacking. I am just trying to explain how this is viewed by myself and the majority of the venomous keepers I know.

I really do recommend just investing the time in venomous training to gain experience if you are moving into venomous. Or, if you really must have venomoid, I do know that there were some animals that already had the operation for sale in the venomous classifieds a while back. A few may still be available.
 
Old 01-24-2018, 11:00 PM   #14
Arctophile117
Ok, now that you explain that, yes, I was considering that as well. I'm prepared to equip my drawer with whatever additional antibiotics and whatnot that the vet would suggest. And I'd do a drastic bit of research on whoever I'm referred to, as there is the occasional quack.

I currently own a squam, and have done quite a lot of research on both sides of the coin. (The ethical issues I'm able to put any stock in center around possibly confusing a snake-loving future guest into thinking such a thing is ever safe; the issue regarding pain and suffering equates to a dog getting its balls lopped off, from what I've uncovered on updated venomoid techniques.) Seems the main ethical concern centers around a gross misunderstanding possibly developing within the general public, which I would agree would be cause enough for concern. My main concern here is, if I can (unfortunately) put my snake through a painful recovery period in order to avoid possibly hurting it over the course of its life by accident with my hooks and neck holds and whatnot, then it'd be a tradeoff. As I stand, even venomoid, it'd demand respect simply for the size of his teeth.
 
Old 01-24-2018, 11:08 PM   #15
Arctophile117
So far as the operation itself, I've come to understand that the angle they go in from is much different - typically from within the mouth using a small incision on each side, snipping connective tissue atthe back of each gland and then at the duct in its front, clearing the duct to speed up residue depletion, then closing each wound, thus keeping the animal's teeth intact -
whereas they used to cut in from the sides of the head. Also, that this new method used to be done under cold torpor, though I've come to understand they have developed safer tranquilization methods since then.
 
Old 01-24-2018, 11:12 PM   #16
Arctophile117
I'm not sure if I was clear enough, but yes, they remove the glands after disconnection. I understand the process has become similar to, say, getting your appendix out; I had very small incisions for a relatively large organ. I've read it's a similar job, in that respect.
 
Old 01-24-2018, 11:24 PM   #17
Arctophile117
Oh, and again, caution still needs to be used. There would be residue still present, causing a lingering risk of envenomation, so I'd have to get it tested a few times afterward. So said vet would need to provide followup care, not just the procedure itself.
 
Old 01-25-2018, 07:36 AM   #18
Lucille
Erin, I do not favor venomoids but that is not what you asked. To answer your question (sort of) have you checked with the Purdue Vet school? It may be that they can give you a couple of references.
I think the two major factors (to me) in creating a venomoid are trauma to the animal and as you say, lingering risk which may create liability and danger. I also think it might be worth a few minutes of your time to do a search and read up about absolute liability in reference to wild animals.
I would hope that any vet you approach would completely cover both factors in a conversation with you, giving you enough information to make a wise decision.
 
Old 01-25-2018, 09:40 AM   #19
Arctophile117
Thank you for that lead, Lucille. And I am aware of "strict liability" (which, in a nutshell, says I'd be responsible for any injury caused by my snake due to it being a wild animal). I read up on those laws prior to ever having considered getting him.
 
Old 01-25-2018, 09:34 PM   #20
kazsmerfamily14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald C View Post
I would also avoid the venomoid route as the venom aides in the digestive process for some if not all venomous animals. It is not only a cruel treatment, it is also detrimental to the health of the animal.

If you want to get into venomous, just commit to it and get the proper training if you don't already have training.
I

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