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Veterinarian Practice & General Health Issues Anything to do with veterinarians, health issues, pathogens, hygiene, or sanitation.

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Old 01-27-2018, 03:35 PM   #21
hotlips
Hello all...I've been quiet here for some time, but I'd like to add my 2 cents on this, since in years past I've kept 7 venomoid rattlesnakes (plus a few other kinds) & kept quite a few hot rattlesnakes as well*- for a total of 20 safe years. *I did rescues/re-locations & accepted those unwanted that were in captivity too long to be released...at no time did I ever deliberately capture wild snakes, hot or otherwise, unless injured or about to be. I also did many educational programs with both native & non-native snakes.

Anyway, the venomoids I had were all given to me, NOT fixed for me and were then unwanted by their previous owners. (think about that, ok?) While I really enjoyed having some venomoids, I would never deliberately have that done.

You are under the impression that venom is not essential to their digestion, but that is not always true...it starts the digestive process. One of a pair of eastern diamondbacks had very poor digestion: his body was triangular (cross-section) and in spite of a good appetite, it was obvious by his foul smelling & greasy stools that he was unable to digest properly. I first tried adding digestive enzymes to his food, with little effect. Finally I decided to just use a "venom donor" to bite his prey for him...that worked pretty well & he slowly gained some weight, but he was never as healthy as he should have been, nor were his stools entirely normal.

As for your original question, I can't help you there...those who fixed the snakes I had aren't around any more. There was a vet in Phoenix AZ that used to do them years ago, but he didn't like to, so he charged a lot, I heard. I do hope you'll reconsider.
 
Old 01-27-2018, 03:41 PM   #22
Arctophile117
The only thing I've reconsidered is continuing any interaction with this site.
 
Old 01-27-2018, 04:44 PM   #23
Lucille
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctophile117 View Post
The only thing I've reconsidered is continuing any interaction with this site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctophile117 View Post

On this note, I distinctly remember that as I was making my account on this forum, a moderator was running a survey, asking members' general views of this site. He blatantly stated his concern that perhaps the older and longer-time members are running off new members due to an "old club" mentality. I am beginning to see why he was concerned.
You've received varied responses here and some have had good info, others valid opinion. Why not pick out what is helpful to you and be grateful for those that took their time to respond, even if you do not agree?
 
Old 01-28-2018, 01:32 PM   #24
BlueCrowned
I was the first to respond and I am a new member (less than a year). I have had no issues with this site. It sounds like you have a personal problem.
 
Old 01-28-2018, 01:39 PM   #25
BlueCrowned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctophile117 View Post
I'm getting roadblocks by good ol' boys who percieve someone as being recklessly naive of the lethality of such a beautiful creature, and of the respect due it for exactly that reason (it being a living, breathing thing goes without saying).
Backreading now and I'm just endlessly amused by this. It sounds like you are aware of the lethality, but I'm not sure having its teeth removed just so you can keep it as a pet is showing it any respect at all. On the contrary, altering an animal's natural state for your own desires is one of the most selfish things you can do.

And I'm not sure what your definition of a good ol' boy is in this hobby, but I'll have had my first snake for a year in February, so I doubt I'm it. I just have some common sense and actual love and respect for these animals as living beings instead of toys or trinkets that can be modified for my own purposes.
 
Old 01-28-2018, 01:42 PM   #26
BlueCrowned
One more thing: Are you aware that with the procedure you talked about, the glands could still grow back and then you would unwittingly have a perfectly venomous snake on your hands?
 
Old 01-28-2018, 02:05 PM   #27
Lucille
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCrowned View Post
On the contrary, altering an animal's natural state for your own desires is one of the most selfish things you can do.
That there is a bit of a slippery slope, I think the PETA folk would say that these critters are wild, and keeping them as pets is selfish (I don't agree). I myself would not keep either venomoids or venomous, but that's a subject for a different thread I think.

In any case even though venomoids are a bit of a hot topic, if we all respect one another and this wonderful site we have, a discussion might be interesting. Feelings run strong and I'm not sure minds will be changed, but putting info out there can be useful. Info about gland regrowth for instance is enormously useful, as someone who has not yet heard of the possibility may have their very lives saved by reading this thread.
 
Old 01-28-2018, 02:47 PM   #28
hotlips
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCrowned View Post
...but I'm not sure having its teeth removed just so you can keep it as a pet is showing it any respect at all. On the contrary, altering an animal's natural state for your own desires is one of the most selfish things you can do.

....I just have some common sense and actual love and respect for these animals as living beings instead of toys or trinkets that can be modified for my own purposes.
Just for clarity, removing fangs does nothing to render a venomous snake "safe" as their fangs are routinely replaced anyway. The surgeries in question either disconnect the venom ducts on both sides, or completely remove the venom glands. And mistakes do happen...the accessory glands are quite tiny. Most of these surgeries are NOT done by veterinarians, who have invested in their education & value their careers doing saner things.
But you're correct, it's disrespectful of nature, just like de-clawing cats or dyeing your dog purple to match your outfit.

When I got into keeping venomous snakes many years ago, it was totally by accident. A lifelong animal-lover, I had a few harmless colubrids first before I was offered a "fixed" (safe) rattlesnake that the owners no longer wanted.
At first, neither did I...but the "rescuer" in me finally said yes, & while I tested repeatedly to make sure he was incapable of injecting venom, in time the fact that he was safe (or "safer") to work with allowed me to better understand all the wild ones that turned up in my neighbor's yards...snakes that were usually killed as a risk for humans & their pets too. It became my mission to help both sides, by re-locating those rattlesnakes, & in so doing, to educate the local public to better respect and tolerate them. That's just not the same thing as taking one from nature just because you can, & modifying it into your pet, which by the way, doesn't usually work out: the guys who caught & had "fixed" that rattlesnake lost interest because they were essentially show-offs & lacked empathy...eventually the fang bites got old, even without venom. Go figure...

Now think about the snake for a moment: born free but suddenly thrust into a life of terror in a prison cell with "predators" always lurking about they can never fully hide from. That's how they see us, as big ugly predators. Forcing wildlife to live in fear in your phony world does not suggest to me that you love them. If you did, you'd only love to see them in the wild.

One more thing you should know: some time later I learned more about the man (now deceased) who had fixed that rattlesnake for those guys. He was a wildlife poacher of the highest magnitude, and those who captured snakes for him were not the least bit respectful of the snakes they caught...they did it to make money illegally (those rattlesnakes were "protected" by law). One of those turned out to be my nephew, who on at least one occasion, allowed a whole trunk full of captured snakes to die in a hot barn without food or water because he was just a totally irresponsible jerk. Is that the kind of people you really want to support? I don't.
 
Old 01-28-2018, 03:02 PM   #29
BlueCrowned
Lucille-- You have a point. I'm not against spaying or neutering animals, for instance. But that has benefits for the animal as well and is not just for human benefit.

Just for the record, and I realize this is not the issue at hand, but dyeing a dog with natural, harmless dyes that wear out in a couple months is not remotely comparable to permanently disfiguring an animal and causing unnecessary pain in the process. The dye does not affect the dog in any way and I have no issue with something like that. I had my dog's tail colored pink once... It was cute and he didn't really care that he was a bit more colorful for a while.
 
Old 01-28-2018, 03:18 PM   #30
hotlips
For the record, I sometimes applaud the attention that PETA brings to abuse, but they are too extreme for me to support as well.

And yes, harmless coloring of an already-domestic pet isn't the same thing as taking a wild animal, rendering it unable to survive in the wild, and keeping it as a pet. The problem is that most people are incapable of making a lifelong commitment to that animal, and what happens when they lose interest for whatever reason. People abandon domestic animals all the time "because they're moving" or their "son got bored"...with a wild animal you've modified, it can never have it's life back, it's just too late once you realize it was a bad idea after all.
 

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