MATT OAKLEY

Hopefully this doesn't end up being a novel. But please take the time to read it.

I bought an Adult Female Blood Python off Matt roughly 2 months ago for 490 shipped. She arrived at the shipping address in a duct taped Produce box! There was NO heat, NO snake bag, NO insulation. Just a snake thrown in a box with some paper. This is not the right way to ship an animal! What should have took place was this girl should have been shipped in a properly insulated box without a heat pack. Not shipped in a box you’d find at the grocery store.

When contacted, Matt replied back saying that he thought I told him it was "hot enough" here and that the box she was shipped in was more than adequate. Anyone in the reptile business SHOULD KNOW BETTER than to do something like this. This was a very unprofessional move, especially for someone who claims to have over 4 years of experience on KS. I didn't see any of the other problems yet.....

This is said box upon arrival and opening....





Next issue...

She came in with an RI and easily 200 to 300 Mites, as well as stuck shed on her body and eyes. She got soak after soak after soak to kill the little things as well as getting rubbed down with Reptile Relief. Her cage was treated with PAM and in she went. I contacted Matt again and he refunded me 100 bucks for vet bills. I'll give him this much, that was a good gesture. It turned out to be too little too late though, especially since my vet bills alone amounted to over 100 bucks.

Now I'd had luck with Amikacin in the past with Bloods and decided to give it a go for 2 weeks to clear up the RI, didn't work.

We then ran a Culture and Sensitivity test on her and put her back on Amikacin as well as Fortaz for a month, THAT didn't work.

I contacted Matt and told him that we need to resolve this issue as she was going to be put down as she wasn't getting better despite mine and my vets best efforts. I told him that if he refunded the purchase price for the animal minus the shipping cost, that we would be square. He sold me this animal, she's gotta get put down, seems fair doesn't it?

Matt said that he had had the snake for over a year and she was healthy in his care....this snake says different.

We bickered back and forth for a few days over this, her being such a beautiful animal, I kept holding out on her, and thought to give her one more go...

I contacted my veterinarian and he thought trying one more drug class outside the Aminoglycoside and the Cephalosporin groups might be a last shot, we went with a Fluoroquinolone; Baytril. Since she was already doing terrible, what could it hurt?

We have her on 10 mg/kg q 24h with ZERO improvement. This is the highest dose and most frequent you can give this snake.

I already know Matt isn’t going to refund the price for her, nor does he want her back. Wonder why.....

I just hope that I can reach enough people with this information, to spare them the heartache and stress that this snake and Matt have caused me. I hope it reaches enough of you too, cause I’m out 500 dollars!

I hope you took the time to read this and take it to heart next time you consider buying from him.

Thank you

More information in this thread....
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=101431

As I’m sure many people won’t answer on this forum but answer these questions to yourself and put yourself in the shoes of the seller in this situation…

Would you refund someones money if they said you sent them a half dead snake but it was still feeding? Even my MOM said, “Snakes that aren’t healthy don’t eat.”

Would you refund someones money if they said the snake had hundreds of mites crawling over it when they got it and you knew that wasn’t true as this is something that’s literally impossible for you to not notice?

Would you refund someones money if they told you it wheezed and you already refunded $100 no questions asked? When I shipped the snake the temperature in my area was 90 degrees plus.

Would you refund someones money if they told you they took the snake to the vet several times, had it on the best meds/strongest doses available, was doing everything they could to save it but have never told you what’s supposedly wrong with the animal even when asked ? Trevor NEVER stated that this snake had a RI or gave me any other indication that ANYTHING was wrong with this animal at all. All he ever told me was that “SOMETHING” was in her system. What vet prescribes an animal meds and tells you, ”Something’s in your pets system.” No vet is going to give anyone meds not even knowing what they’re treating. If the snake had a URI Trevor would have told me this when I asked.

Would you refund someones money if after over 2 months of owning the snake they contact you telling you they’re going to have the snake euthanized and wanted a refund because she “isn't well enough to my satisfaction?”

Would you refund someones money if the person you sold the snake to told other people that they plan to breed this animal this season and tell you that the animal's condition was so bad they they felt it needed to be euthanized?? If you feel the animal wasn't going to make it why tell others you planned to breed it?

Would you refund someones money if they threatened you every other email that they’ed post a bad guy thread on the BOI about you if you didn’t comply in an attempt to force you to do so?

Who here would ever keep a snake that when received was half dead and swarming with mites risking infection to the rest of your collection, keep that animal for OVER 2 MONTHS and contact who you got it from stating that you were going to have to euthanize the animal and wanted a refund??

Who here can honestly answer yes to all these questions and say that you yourself would refund someone money if you were in my shoes??

Would you refund someones money if a friend told you the buyer posted the animal on a popular forum and EVERYONE was telling them how nice that animal was? You don’t show off half dead, mite infested snakes on forums to show everyone how nice of an animal you just got. You don’t tell people how you plan on breeding the animal and that it’s feeding if you think it might not survive. ANYONE who knows snakes knows that dying snakes don’t keep feeding and if you’re planning on having it euthanized the next day (this is what Trevor told me) then why would you even be trying to feed it?? You don’t put smiley faces all over your thread about the animal if you’re not satisfied with it.

You don’t get comments in the thread that you post on this animal like:

Stunning-I want a blood!

Daaaaaaaaamn boy! You are picking out a killer collection over there! Do I need to come and *ahem* visit?

Absolutely gorgeous!!!

That's a hot deep purple lady! As sweet as the brighter reds are, her darkness only serves to amplify the glowing colors along her sides. Great pickup!

She is beautiful!!!!That was a NICE pick up!!! Who did you get her from?
Smoking girl!

I absolutely love that dark head, she is one hot blood!

You don’t have Jason Holzworth of redpython.net respond: “Weight? She looks perfect,” when you say you want to ad weight to her so you can breed her next season if she’s dying.

Here’s the link to the thread that Trever posted on the snake he received from me a MONTH after he received the snake from me:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=96664

Does this look like a half dead/sick animal to you?? To much stuff in this doesn’t make since to me.

I sent Trevor a damn beautiful animal and EVERYONE who saw it said the same. Frankly I believe this is a bullcrap way to try to get some money back.

If this were true, then you would have tols me this POINT BLANK! If the snake had URI and some kind of pseudomonas and you aren't making this up why would you not tell me this when I asked?? All you told me was, "Something's in her system." You never said anything to me about her having a RI either. The whole point to selling any animal is because you don't want the animal, or because you need the money. Why would any seller buy an animal back whether they believe it's healthy or not?? ANSWER ALL OF MY QUESTIONS!!! That thread you posted on the snake is a TOTAL contradiction of the condition your saying the animal's in. Why would you post that animal on this site stating that you planned to breed her and tell me that the snake fed if it was really in the condition you say it was in??? EVERYONE that replied to that thread told you how nice that animal is and you can't deny it. I don't believe at all that you would have posted that thread to show her off to everyone if she was in the condition that you say she's in and needs to be euthanized.

Here's the link again:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=96664

You even made the snake your profile pic on this site! I know if I got a snake that I was going to have put down I would not put it as my profile pic that pops up everytime you make a post because looking at it would piss me off reminding me of the animal...

I put my information up there Matt.

People will deal with this information the way they want to.

Best of luck to you.

Best of luck to your animals.

My buddy recieved an albino ball python from Matt about 18 months or so ago. He told my friend that she was eating well and in great health. When my friend got her, she was covered in scars from being fed live animals and would not feed. He took her to the vet and had cultures and x-rays done. She kept on losing weight so we had to tube feed her. My buddy gave this deadbeat $1200 for a half dead snake, lucky for the snake and my friend we were able to save her. I would never buy from this guy and would encourage anyone thinking about doing business with him to think twice after reading this post.

Originally Posted by EastCoastReptiles171

If this were true, then you would have tols me this POINT BLANK! If the snake had URI and some kind of pseudomonas and you aren't making this up why would you not tell me this when I asked?? All you told me was, "Something's in her system." You never said anything to me about her having a RI either. The whole point to selling any animal is because you don't want the animal, or because you need the money. Why would any seller buy an animal back whether they believe it's healthy or not?? ANSWER ALL OF MY QUESTIONS!!! That thread you posted on the snake is a TOTAL contradiction of the condition your saying the animal's in. Why would you post that animal on this site stating that you planned to breed her and tell me that the snake fed if it was really in the condition you say it was in??? EVERYONE that replied to that thread told you how nice that animal is and you can't deny it. I don't believe at all that you would have posted that thread to show her off to everyone if she was in the condition that you say she's in and needs to be euthanized.

Here's the link again:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=96664

You even made the snake your profile pic on this site! I know if I got a snake that I was going to have put down I would not put it as my profile pic that pops up everytime you make a post because looking at it would piss me off reminding me of the animal...

It doesn't matter if that snake has to be put down, it is one sexy blood and I would make it my profile pic if it was my snake.

Thanks for that additional information guys

Originally Posted by blackblood

My buddy recieved an albino ball python from Matt about 18 months or so ago. He told my friend that she was eating well and in great health. When my friend got her, she was covered in scars from being fed live animals and would not feed. He took her to the vet and had cultures and x-rays done. She kept on losing weight so we had to tube feed her. My buddy gave this deadbeat $1200 for a half dead snake, lucky for the snake and my friend we were able to save her. I would never buy from this guy and would encourage anyone thinking about doing business with him to think twice after reading this post.

I remember this guy and I even posted a thread myself about the situation in August of 2008. I saved a copy on my computer:

Hello,
On Jan 21, 08' I made a deal with a guy that wanted to buy my late 06' female albino that was 500g-600g at the time for $1,050 + shipping. I was selling her to raise funds for another snake and already had other female albinos with better color so I decided that this one could go. The deal was that he would pay me 25% down ($278.75) on Jan 21, 08' and 25% payments on Feb 4, Feb 18, and Mar 3. I originally purchased and payed off this snake and a male pied from a well known breeder on the east coast between the end of April and the end of August. The albino cost me $1,200.

On Mar 11, 08' I shipped the snake to the buyer. In June I believe the buyer sent me an e-mail saying that the snake would not eat. I had never had a problem with her feeding and anyone who is experience with balls know that sometimes they go off feed for various reasons such as; environment changes, enclosure changes, stress etc... Usually as long as they don't start loosing a significant amount of weight it's not a big problem.

I e-mailed him back and asked for: her current enclosure dimensions, cage temps, what it was heated with, if she had a hide etc... The enclosure was about twice as large as what I had been using for her and her hide was now 7"x9" instead of the 4"x6" hide that I was using. I told him to put her in a smaller enclosure if possible and used a smaller hide, which her said he couldn't do either. So, I told him to put crumpled up newspaper in the cage and the hide so the snake would feel more secure.

The buyer e-mailed me back a couple of other times, and I responded trying to diagnose the cause of her not eating. I told the buyer everything that I could thing of . Late July I received this message:

she is still off feed. she is going on 7 months or so w/ out food. i have done everything i can to try and get her to eat. she is not eating. there was nothing in the ad about her being a problem feeder I'm not pleased. the last thing i want is a Dead $1000 dollar snake. she is an o6 an my other 06 snakes are almost 3 times her size.

1) He says that she hasn't eaten for "7 months or so" but he has only had the snake for 5 months.
2) He also says, "there was nothing in the ad about her being a problem feeder I'm not pleased." She had never been a problem feeder with me. This was another sign showing the inexperience of the buyer. I know that just because a snake does well with someone also, does not mean that it will thrive with me.
3) The last the he says is, "she is an o6 an my other 06 snakes are almost 3 times her size." I own over 100 snakes now and they all vary a great amount of weight, even between clutchmates. I have late 07' animals that range from 400g-1,100g and 06' animals who range from 600g-2,000g+ who all feed well and I wouldn't worry about.

The reason I said that 2) was another sign showing me that the buyer was inexperienced is that he asked a couple of questions before purchasing the animal that I felt was basic snake knowledge like; is she ready to breed and a couple of others that I can't remember which have been deleted from my mailbox.

The last e-mail I received Aug 12th said this:

Matt,
I brought the 06 albino to the vet. i currently have her on Fortaz/Ceftazidine injections once every 3 days for the next two weeks. i had a fecal exam done that came back negative which was good. she was also given Metronidazol and tube feeding because she was so under weight. she has lost about 18 grams since I've had due to her lack of wanting to feed. she was also X-Ray ed and because of two areas on the spine that look like they could potentially be infected we have her on the antibiotics listed above and have given her a " hunger inducer " to encourage feeding. if she is not better after about a month and is not showing progress i want a refund of my money or another snake of equal value. i have no problem returning the the 06 albino. its not right that a $1,200.00 snake was shipped to me that has the potential to just wither away. Because live food i believe she was fed prior to my owning her i think she is now afraid of rats/mice and may not eat for me. after her treatments are done if she still wont eat we will have to work something out. i don't mean to sound like a scumbag but i really care about my snakes and i don't want to be out $1,200 on a dead snake.

He says he took her to the vet and she has no problems like parasites or anything that would have been a problem the months ago when I had her. He did say she potentially has an infection but i'm sure that if she had an infection when I had her I would have seen it and he would have said something to me about it in the 5 months that he's had her. Also, i'm pretty sure that infections don't show up on x-rays.

Honestly, this part of the e-mail irritated me:

if she is not better after about a month and is not showing progress i want a refund of my money or another snake of equal value. i have no problem returning the the 06 albino. its not right that a $1,200.00 snake was shipped to me that has the potential to just wither away. Because live food i believe she was fed prior to my owning her i think she is now afraid of rats/mice and may not eat for me. after her treatments are done if she still wont eat we will have to work something out. i don't mean to sound like a scumbag but i really care about my snakes and i don't want to be out $1,200 on a dead snake.

Here's why:
Just as every experienced ball python breeder, I to have had feeding problems at one time or another. I would not assume that because I can't get a snake to eat that the buyer sold me "a bad snake," especially when it's roughly 550g. Snakes are not like dogs you can't "guarantee" that this animal will eat because as a species the go off feed for many reasons. You can say it feeds well, or maybe it's a picky feeder etc. I have been in the same situation where I contacted the breeder and he worked with me to replicate the previous living conditions in which the snake thrived. This snake cost me $3k and I never saw him eat in almost a year. I took him back to the breeder and within a week the snake fed 5 times or more over the next 2 months. I didn't go to the breeder and say I want my money back because he won't eat. I don't believe that he was responsible for the snake not feeding, I was. I did end up selling the snake to a friend who has not had any feeding problems with this animal.

"if she is not better after about a month and is not showing progress i want a refund of my money or another snake of equal value. i have no problem returning the the 06 albino."

I would not take an animal back. I have no idea what conditions the animal was if when she wasn't in my care. She could have been exposed to a number of diseases or mite which I am certainly not willing to put back with my collection. I take very good care of my animals and I only buy from select breeders. I've also spent over $100k on my collection in the last 5 years and would not jeopardize exposing them to anything.


"its not right that a $1,200.00 snake was shipped to me that has the potential to just wither away."

Any animal has the "potential to wither away" or thrive depending on the knowledge of the owner and how well the animal is cared for by the owner. When someone that owns an animal is inexperienced, the animal pays the price. I have people all the time come to my job asking me what the animals that they've owned for a week eats, or wanting to keep hatchling red ear sliders in small kritter keepers with no filtration, no uv or basking lighting, and an inch of water. I can only do my best to educate myself and try to educate them.


"Because live food i believe she was fed prior to my owning her i think she is now afraid of rats/mice and may not eat for me."

She was never harmed by any feeder rodents prior to or during my ownership of the snake so I don't see why he would believe she "is now afraid of rats/mice"


after her treatments are done if she still wont eat we will have to work something out. i don't mean to sound like a scumbag but i really care about my snakes and i don't want to be out $1,200 on a dead snake.

This is a contradiction, in the beginning of the sentence he says he really cares about his snakes and the second half he say he doesn't want to loose the money if she dies... Which is more important loosing the money or the animal actually dying??

Basically, I write all of this to ask: Do you feel that a breeder who sells a healthy snake to someone is responsible if after 5 months the animal doesn't eat?

If any of this is confusing, i'm sorry I have been moving to my new place for the last 5 hrs and am writing this at 6am in the morning which was the only time I could find to do it.

Feel free to e-mail me with any questions

thanks for reading,
Matt

I've NEVER asked anyone to post anything about me when they like the animals I send them but people still do:

man, i gotta say this guy produces some AWESOME ball morphs. definately recommend buying your breeding stock from matt. you will not be dissapointed. just for an example check out the pics of the babies i got from him. click my profile and look under my pics. (posted on my myspace)

I just got a female all red eyed snow raptor leo from Matt on this Friday that just passed 6/19/09. He addressed the issues brought up in this thread and I felt confident in moving forward with my purchase from his answers. I asked a ton of questions and he always responded in a timely manner. I told him how much money I had to spend on her and he was more then willing to work with me on price. I also told him I wanted one that was a good eater and I have NO problems with her eating so far. He packed her well and she came in full of attitude ready to get out of the deli cup. I had a fecal done at the vet (as i always do with new leo's) and it came up clean. I have talked with Matt on the phone, email and text message and he was always a cool dude with me. I would definately buy another leo from him in the future

Hey matt. Got the babies. They are f***** awsome! I believe I found where ill be buying my lesser platty and pieds. Thanks so much
- Jonh

Just as anyone who has sold hundreds of snakes (which I have) I have some people who aren't satisfied, but I KNOW I have many more who are. And I know this from the amount of snakes i've sold and return buyers I have had.

For the record, my buddy was not and is not inexperienced in ball python husbandry. He learned from me by helping with my collection. His caging is top of the line as well as his knowledge of these animals. For that albino to be that age and that skinny, there is no way that could have happened in the short amount of time that he owned her.
I'm not going to fight with you, but it is my right to inform others of your deals that many and most breeders would deem unethical.
I've said my peace.