Jungle Habitats - Alan Hall - You Can Decide

Maybe I am just getting jaded the more I am involved with the herping community but this has really been bothering me for a while regarding a deal I had with Alan. I am not trying to convince anyone if he is a good guy or bad guy but just presenting what happened with the latest deal I had with him. I am writing this to detail what transpired. I have always liked Alan but this deal on top of a few other funky ones lately made me decide enough was enough and the story needs to be told instead of me just forgeting it and moving on. I also want to make it clear that I want nothing from Alan and am not writing this to get anything from him. I have found an alternate source for a black slant front cage. The herping community can decide on their own if if this deal was good or bad. You guys are smart enough to do that without me doing anything but presenting what happened. OK, enough with the rambling. Here is what transpired.

Alan received my payment for the cage.

check made it
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Find Member's Posts check made it, Feb 17 2007, 09:15 PM
I Pimp Reptile Cages & Reptile Cage Accessories
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Member No.: 76
Joined: 26-August 04
hey just wanted o let ya know it got here today
Alan

I sent back a PM a while later to get an update since the check would have cleared by now.

Re:Order #30
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Find Member's Posts Re:Order #30, Apr 8 2007, 07:57 AM
I Pimp Reptile Cages & Reptile Cage Accessories
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Steve this oder will be going this week and the other one should be going out after the 16th as i have a show comming this week and I am trying to get everything finsihed and out before i leave this week on orders and build a few things for the show
Alan

Guess what? No cage. I sent another PM and got told of a delay again.

Re:Order #30, Apr 22 2007, 08:50 PM
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Alan

Then I got this email. Finally it was shipping but it was not going to be a decent cage.

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:35:50 -0400
To: "Steve Jordanides" <sjordanides@sbcglobal.net>
From: "Jungle Habitats Plastics" <info@junglehabitatsplastics.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Order Update #30

Jungle Habitats Plastics
------------------------------------------------------
Order Number: 30

Detailed Invoice:
http://junglehabitatsplastics.com/we...fo&order_id=30

Date Ordered: Thursday 08 FebruaryDate Ordered: Thursday 08 February, 2007

The comments for your order are: doors are 15 1/8 x 18 for the cage
steve I
am waiting on white for the other cage to come in sometime next week.
this
cage coming is a freebie i will be building the paid for one soon as
my
white gets in to my suppliers . When i say freebie its a slat front
but its
dirty plastic on the white so please dont judge that cage as the
item
that will be coming shortly

Your order has been updated to the following status:
New status: Your order has shipped

Please reply to this email if you have any questions.

Well, it never shipped in April as his email said so I emailed him in June. I know. I waited a long time but tried to give him the benefit of the doubt since I had dealt with him before and knew he was swamped.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Jordanides [mailto:sjordanides@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 2:49 PM
To: Jungle Habitats Plastics
Subject: Re: Order Update #30


Any update on the cage for me?
What about the idea for paint booth? That might be a new market for you.

Here was his reply.

From: info@junglehabitatsplastics.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: "Steve Jordanides" <sjordanides@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Order Update #30
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 23:02:21 -0400
Steve ,

I just got into the house been gone this week and i havent been spending alot of time on forums due to being so bizzy. I Will bee getting more plasticv next week and will have the white in that order It will honestly be about two weeks before it will be ready to go out from that date as i had soime damages i have to rebuild . I must have missed the paint booth thing ? if you can resend that info or email etc as i havent been on the forums in a many days .
Alan

Well, it arrived and I posted in his question section on a site about it. Notice it did not have vents. It was also not just dirty but nicked and scratched.

How do I put this damn lock on? I can't figure it out.

What can I use to drill to put vents in it?

What cleaner can I use that won't destroy the plastic?

His reply.

hey steve sorry took so long to get to this ,

the lock .. take a hammer or pliers and its made to be used by having it clamp to the glass/ acrylic. Take it OFF the door give it a tap or a squeeze and then slide it on . It should fir SNUG. That was a new lock i was trying it has stayed on my cage here but i have since ordered the other type just in case.

for cleaning there are a few things to try with those marks , one rubbing alcohol but you have to WIPE fast dont let it set. Thats why i personally hate white anything they show so many finger prints etc or scuffs on them lol but the next cage will not be like that lol that was under many sheets of black in the shop

Steve for vents it can be drilled with any reg drill bit or hole saw. I will send 3" vents to you in the other cage when its ready to go out to you also.

The line on the back is that being the first build of them and the sawblade cutting it so that it lays down as i didnt have a size on full sheet on that unit. All opf my cages do have a seam there where i join them ( if you look inside you will see the material is doubled up there and is 1/2" thick as it gives me a place to mount lights etc.


the box .. yeah FED EX wanted over $127 to ship that box lol i tell you large cages and the regular carriers are crazy now freight is the best way to move things now

Alan

My reply. I didn't feel like waiting for vents for this thing since it was not exactly a good cage and he was going to be sending a nice one anyway..

Don't worry about sending extra vents with the other cage. I'll vent this one. I just wanted to know if I needed a special cutter for it to prevent cracking.

Just put the 3" vents in the other cage if you can.

I know what you mean about Fed Ex. I charged someone $150 for overnight shipping last month (2 very large and heavy snakes) which was the quote from the Fed Ex site and when I got the bill it was almost $180. A lot more than what they said it would be.

They are getting out of control.

Even basic overnight for a small animal is getting expensive. I can't ship for under $50 once the fuel surchages, signature charges, and pickup charges are added in.

Thanks again and I look forward to seeing the other cage.

Well, then I get this PM from him.

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Find Member's Posts steve, Jun 26 2007, 08:28 PM
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Steve ,

The material came in today for that cage , I am crashing to finish up about 8 cages this week . Its going to be min of approx 7-10 days before ill be doing any building as im leaving this weekend to pick my son up for 2 weeks for summer break. He lives with his mom 3 hrs away so this is the firsttime i have since feb to see him and im not doing anything while hes here as we will be at the beach untill next thursday then ill be back here next weekend after that ill be doing some building in the shop then and will let you know when its ready . All ill ask is that you cover shipping & packing on the cage with DHL it should run approx $85 / $90 dueto size and fedex /UPS i know will be over $100 shipping alone on the cage due to the size
Alan

At this point I was done. Waiting forever, getting shipped a messed up cage, and now him wanting more money from me to get a cage in the condition I originally ordered months ago.

[quote]Re:steve, Jun 26 2007, 10:11 PM
[quote]Have fun with your son.
I have to pass then. I am completely strapped for cash and my half yearly tax bill on my house is due July 1st which is almost $2500. No extra money for anything.

Steve ,

This is where it ended.

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Find Member's Posts Re:steve, Jun 26 2007, 10:11 PM
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Steve ,
Let me know in the future if you want to do that and will be yours still . I just cant afford to foot the shipping on it as shipping has already darn near bankrupt me the 1st 1/4 this yr due to shipping increases going from $80 to $110+ with fedex on the large packages alonee this yr has run me almost $1200 from MY pocket due to i had already sold them and couldnt go asking for more on shipping so i ate ALOT and then had some damages that had to be rebuilt and shipper wont cover damages on cages due to they always say insufficent packing which is BS. so when things change on your end let me know and ill still send ya the cage ok ?
Alan

I apologize for the length of this post but wanted to include all correspondence. Right now I am very dissapointed in Alan. As I said in the begining of this thread, I do not want anything from Alan. I have found another source to get the slant front cages and will be ordering a 36 inch black one from them.

You can make up your own minds about whether or not you want to do business with Jungle Habitats. I have already come to my own disapointing conclusion.

Bummer Steve. You truly have had a rough year.

But you have to admit, this sounds eerily familiar to other people's experiences with Alan.

Outside of the details themselves. Just having to constantly having to pull the info from him would have made me leery. I would think Alan (Hall), once he busted his timelines, would have been keeping you informed from his end. That would at least show you hadn't been forgotten. Instead, you have to keep poking him to get what any customer should be getting.

Looks like you got bad customer service AND bad product.

Date Ordered: Thursday 08 FebruaryDate Ordered: Thursday 08 February, 2007

The comments for your order are: doors are 15 1/8 x 18 for the cage
steve I
am waiting on white for the other cage to come in sometime next week.
this
cage coming is a freebie i will be building the paid for one soon as
my
white gets in to my suppliers . When i say freebie its a slat front
but its
dirty plastic on the white so please dont judge that cage as the
item
that will be coming shortly

Jun 26 2007
All ill ask is that you cover shipping & packing on the cage with DHL it should run approx $85 / $90

Steve, I just want to make sure I understand. You paid for a cage back in February. He said at least twice that your order was shipping out a specific week and it didn't.

He then stated your order was being sent again

Apr 22 2007, 08:50 PM
Ill be sending it out Monday prob around noon as the fedex guy runs around then. Sorry for the delay and when i get the other one built i will let you and send it out to you also

but on that Friday he then send a email stating it wasn't your cage that was ready. instead, he his sending a freebie and will send the one you actually paid for later.

Date Ordered: Thursday 08 FebruaryDate Ordered: Thursday 08 February, 2007

The comments for your order are: doors are 15 1/8 x 18 for the cage
steve I
am waiting on white for the other cage to come in sometime next week.
this
cage coming is a freebie i will be building the paid for one soon as
my
white gets in to my suppliers . When i say freebie its a slat front
but its
dirty plastic on the white so please dont judge that cage as the
item that will be coming shortly

When it comes time for shipping the cage that you had already paid for, ( I assume you already paid shipping on the cage when you sent your initial payment) you get this message.

All ill ask is that you cover shipping & packing on the cage with DHL it should run approx $85 / $90

You declined. So, in the end you never did get the cage you paid for. You were shipped a cage that you were told was free and didn't ask for. The cage was in bad condition and you were told by the seller not to judge that cage as the item that will be coming shortly. The one you paid for.

If I understand the situation correctly, I'm assuming your purchase price was refunded shortly after declining to pay for shipping twice.

You are exactly right Dennis except that I did not get a refund.
I wrote this entire thing off as a loss and a very disapointing expereince.

Originally Posted by SPJ

You are exactly right Dennis except that I did not get a refund.
I wrote this entire thing off as a loss and a very disapointing expereince.

The first cage was sent to you as a freebie because it was crap! Go get your damn money back man!!! Its your money and you're entitled to that refund! Why would you let him keep it? You can be easily done with him for the delays and still have your hard earned money back.

I sold the subpar cage he sent so I got 1/3 of the cost of the cage back that way. Alan doesn't use paypal and the way this deal went, I just figured 1/3 back was better than nothing. It's a small price to pay to find out that Alan is not the person I thought he was.

Chuck is right Steve. You should get your money back. Chalking this up yo a bad experience isn't enough. He owes you a refund. Glad you did recoop some of your lose though.

Like I said before, I want nothing from Alan.
This just really bothered me because at one time I had thought of Alan as a good guy and friend. We had spoken on the phone, thru emails, etc over the past several years. I never expected him to treat me in this way. I paid the price to find out I was wrong about Alan and I am now done.
I just wanted to outline my experience since if he would do this to someone he has known for years, what would happen to a total stranger that placed an order with him? The feeling of betrayal is worse than any monetary loss.

The sentiment you expressed in your first and last post of this thread are something I have experienced firsthand. I'm sorry, Steve.