The Columbus Reptile show was Raided by Fish&wildlife officers

Just some observations and past run in's: Keep in mind that you can also get busted or accused even when you do not try to obatin illegal animals. In the 70's and 80's Fish & Wild had "sting operations" in effect that targeted people who did not try to obatin illegal animals. People were phoned and offered "illegal" animals. If they refused they got a package anyway. Some people refused the packages and sent them back only to get another. Those that did open the boxes and sent the animals back were charged!!!....I recently was sent a box of "animals".
I did not know they were coming thru the channels that they did. They person knew about the documentation and the channels that they were to go thru. A few weeks after discussing the matter I recieved a box along with several other shipments that day. I signed for them without looking.(I was on the phone) When I opened it I found no paperwork or invoice. I figured that there was some mix-up.(Lost paperwork or forgotten) I didn't have 10 minutes before someone(You can guess who) showed up. Whole tactical team and all!!!! I luckily had a "trail" to show that I wasn't trying to get them in this manner. It was hell to say the least. Be CAREFUL! Well getting a little off subject but it does connect. I have found over the years that law enforcement can be grossly negligent and uninformed as to laws and identification. How do we address that? Maybe we can work with them on this? Just a thought....Before anyone goes to any show call the local agencies and get an updated (Printed) copy of the CURRENT laws. Carry this with you. Also, do not neglect to carry receipts of where your animals were obtained. (It won't stop them but, it might give you the much needed "ammo.") I could go on for hours in regards to the organizational need of the herp community in general. Herp societies are helpful and in some cases can give the needed push to change or block laws. However, as mentioned before we all have to get on the wagon! I'm in !We just need a direction.!!! As to those who are legitimately busted...oh well. However, too many people are nailed by the "grey" areas in laws. They are there for a reason.... I'll discuss that another time.! Last but not least....We need to include law enforcement in this process.. Yeah I know many people don't want to hear this but it's true.
Just like there are "bad" herpers... Uninformed or radical elements exist in law enforcement. Keep in mind we need to affect the laws before enforcement is handed them! Just a side note.... Turtles under 4" can be sold under 1240.62 If these people would adhere to the wording it would not be a problem. Enough. Ray Goushaw www.herpbreedingresearch.com

I agree with you about needing posts to be verifiable.

That's why I have just verified it for you as a third party.

As for your example about the sick animal, I do see your point and if no one stood up to verify the source than Neil's post would be a joke and dismissed as such by the members on this board in a very expedient fashion. Of that fact, I have no doubt.

In this case the stakes are a bit higher than just a reputation. It's getting the fat headed retards of the Fish and Game after an innocent for revenge. Stealing his animals as "evidence" or worse yet trumping up some Bu!!chit charges to take his hard earned money in fines. Don't put it past them to go after any trouble makers or people simply voicing out against them. We are all at risk when these buffoons decide to come after us.

Since it's this vendors job, I respect Scott for standing behind his word and not divulging the name. In this case, it's just not needed. Lets protect the innocent.

This seems to be taking on a personal bent that I did not intend.

I am sure you and Scott have stated the truth here. You both have solid reps as far as I know.

Now, if neil came on and verified that lilley had indeed been telling the truth about what jason who sold Cheryl female ball pythons( that all turned out male)said, ie that they were all female, do you see how this can get to convoluted to follow? Yes in this particular instance all is well. However, in the future there is no guarentee of the same occurring.

So do we follow the rules, or make exceptions as individual interactions occur?

Now, once again, this is in no way pointed at either of you two. I just don't want to see this made a habit. If an exception is made here then it's easier to make later on in a situation that may or may not be as important as this one is. And easier to let it go on the next one and so on and so on.......

I don't really care who said what to who about the raid or the show. It really has nothing to do with what I am trying to get across here. I believe that both Tim and Scott have told the truth. I firmly believe that there are MANY others out there who would not tell the truth if it profited them to lie. In order to keep them as honest as possible we must utilize all means possible and one of the most important is that only verifiable, and by that I mean by the person who made the statement in question not one of his friends or the friend of a friend who he asked not to use his name, and only such information be used here.

I think that may have been a little clearer than my past posts. I hope so anyway.

Wes Pollock

Originally posted by wilomn
So do we follow the rules, or make exceptions as individual interactions occur?

Well... we are having a completely off topic discussion in this forum.... ah well... lets just focus on what happen and learn ways to stop it from happening again.. for us and our herps.

I am all for that.

Wes Pollock

The laws themselves are available on the Ohio DNR's website, but to clear up some confusions-

The law covers native species and hybrids thereof. This, I think, clearly encompasses albinos.

All native animals have to be microchipped over a certain size, so if someone had permitted animals that weren't pittagged, that would have been a violation
.
There have been prarie dogs at the show in the past. I've heard that prarie have been illegal in Ohio, but I could never verify it. It was never repeat vendors who were selling them, and I don't think this entered into the investigation,although I'm sure they would have taken them if they were there.

The law does encompass red eared sliders. One officer there told me that they have been watching pet stores. Something isn't right there, as I've seen every local pet store have RES at some point. I think someone's been enforcing the 4 inch law lately, though, as those seem to have disappeared.

It's also very very sad when a wildlife officer can't identify the 5 or 10 native snakes he or she would be likely to run into at a show. How can we expect them to tell a legal western fox from an illegal eastern fox?

Erin Benner

Below you will find a breif list all all Reptiles that will be banned from ownership if we don't pull together now:
at Tail Gecko's (Albino's & Stripe's)
romastyx (Mali, Egyptian, etc...)
ook's Tree Boa's (ETB's & GTP's)
ingsnakes (No matter locale)

exas Rats (Luecistic's included)
eloderma
astern Hognose (Western, and what the heck, Southern too)

reen Iguan's
paque Reptiles (in "blue" of any sort- no cloudy eye covering)
iper Boa's
ars, anything with ears...Red or otherwise
ed Ratsnakes
ew guinea Pythons
acklott's
cdysis, any animal that may or may not shed it's skin
ose Be Panther Chameleons
iger Retics

Out of respect for the webslave and all his visitor's I have removed the first letter of every animal and/or phrase, it's up to you to spell it out. Toodles, and oh yeah - I support our troops 110%

Call me a mental midget here ......,but why were all the first letters removed, out of respect??? must be missing something there.
come to find out more homes were raided today at least two that I know of.
which brings something to mind, one of the homes raided [James] they were looking for a leucistic blandings and a leucistic wood turtle. There was some special interest there for that turtle.
Now am I correct in assuming that they would release that back into the wild per the ohio paper, this was also said in some Mi. papers[that re-releasing was to happen], No I think they would have used it to fund more of the same cr@p that went on the last two days. cmon a leucistic blandings being re-released?!?!?

As far as eastern and western foxes , they are pretty easy to tell apart and it would be easy to fight in court with some pics and documentation, that is if one of these 'knowledgable' fish and game officers were to bust someone with what they thought was an eastern fox, but in reality was a western.I have cought both species, but keep none here at home

With all of my typo's in the first paragraph I can see where you got confused. I just did something stupid to express some of my feelings towards what's happening here. Take all of the animals starting with at Tail Geckos, add the F and continue on down the line - there's a hidden message here. Grown-ups only please, LOL!!

Well, this really doesn't belong in the BOI, but I'm not 100 percent where exactly to put it. I think I need to change the forum from Legislative Alerts to Legislative Issues & Alerts and move it there.