Phil Robbins and Jeremy Hargett ( jsh reptiles )

Originally Posted by Bayshore_pets

So I would like to enlighten everyone here..... I think this is a case of miscommunication at its finest....
I myself actually imported these scorpions under MY federal permit for Jeremy...I actually did 3 separate importations during this time out of Ghana and Togo..I was the one who "requested" 500 androctonus togolensis for venom extractions....
Now, with that said..... What I requested and what we actually received were two different things...They were labeled and packed as Androctonus ssp....WHICH was wrong...All 3 separate scorpion shipments were in fact hotentotta... I spoke with USFW and declared these as THE WRONG SPECIES, as well as declared to them that they were packed not within IATA standards....My recourse was letting USFW know that I was NOT happy with my exporter and that I will NEVER again order scorpions from this individual in Africa ever again....USFW requested photos of the packing and pictures of the actual scorpions that arrived...(they were concerned that there may be emperor scorpions in the shipment, which there was not).
At the end of the day, ALL 3 shipments of "androctonus" were in fact identified and verified by ME as hotenttota, and I subsequently made Jeremy aware of this AFTER he had already placed an ad for them to sell(he actually thought they were androctonus, no crime there, honest mistake)....subsequently he did the right thing and took the ad down....I do not know who Phil is, and I only authorized Jeremy to collect the shipment from my broker in Miami after clearing customs..So phil is most likely someone who Jeremy maybe sold too as well or maybe its his business partner, idk and I don't care...what I do know is that if someone purchased these scorpions from Jeremy and they thought that they were androctonus, then they as well would most likely sell them as androctonus... This is a rookie mistake and SHOULD NOT happen, HOWEVER clearly it does! These scorpions were not represented maliciously or even with the intent to defraud anyone....It was a case of mistaken identity that did not get handled as fast as you would have liked....unfortunate...
I see zero reason to bash someone for this....

How do you know they weren't misrepresented maliciously? Do you know Jeremy personally? Have you read this thread? And why does Phil refer to "my African exporter" as if he is the one with the connection? Oh that's right, you don't know Jeremy's partner.

Oh and, what took you so long? Three plus months? Does somebody have another shipment coming in?

And another thing, USFW was concerned about emperor scorpions in the shipment and trusted you to take photos for them?

Originally Posted by Bayshore_pets

So I would like to enlighten everyone here..... I think this is a case of miscommunication at its finest....
I myself actually imported these scorpions under MY federal permit for Jeremy...I actually did 3 separate importations during this time out of Ghana and Togo..I was the one who "requested" 500 androctonus togolensis for venom extractions....
Now, with that said..... What I requested and what we actually received were two different things...They were labeled and packed as Androctonus ssp....WHICH was wrong...All 3 separate scorpion shipments were in fact hotentotta... I spoke with USFW and declared these as THE WRONG SPECIES, as well as declared to them that they were packed not within IATA standards....My recourse was letting USFW know that I was NOT happy with my exporter and that I will NEVER again order scorpions from this individual in Africa ever again....USFW requested photos of the packing and pictures of the actual scorpions that arrived...(they were concerned that there may be emperor scorpions in the shipment, which there was not).
At the end of the day, ALL 3 shipments of "androctonus" were in fact identified and verified by ME as hotenttota, and I subsequently made Jeremy aware of this AFTER he had already placed an ad for them to sell(he actually thought they were androctonus, no crime there, honest mistake)....subsequently he did the right thing and took the ad down....I do not know who Phil is, and I only authorized Jeremy to collect the shipment from my broker in Miami after clearing customs..So phil is most likely someone who Jeremy maybe sold too as well or maybe its his business partner, idk and I don't care...what I do know is that if someone purchased these scorpions from Jeremy and they thought that they were androctonus, then they as well would most likely sell them as androctonus... This is a rookie mistake and SHOULD NOT happen, HOWEVER clearly it does! These scorpions were not represented maliciously or even with the intent to defraud anyone....It was a case of mistaken identity that did not get handled as fast as you would have liked....unfortunate...
I see zero reason to bash someone for this....

Thanks for the info, where you would have a pretty clear paper trail, since you had disputes related to the shipment, can you provide us the dates that the shipment arrived as well as the date you alerted Jeremy that they were not what you had ordered? Did he have them in hand prior to you verifying them?

In response to your questions Chris Kennard...
#1) I know they were not represented maliciously because I read your thread and the screenshots, and spoke with Jeremy as well, and these are MY personal perceptions.
#2) Yes, I know Jeremy personally....I have imported some African shipments for him and we have also bought and sold to each other numerous times over the years.
#3) Yes, I read this thread, as confusing as it was I tried to make sense of it..
#4) I can only assume that Phil used the verbage "My African exporter" as to not confuse, involve, implicate, or otherwise complicate the forgoing issues that had surfaced....Phil probably saw the African exporter as strictly his contact because those shipments were being directly handled by Jeremy with myself being involved as little as possible as the actual permit holder, I'm not even sure if Phil knows I exist..lol..
I spoke with Jeremy and Phil IS his partner and his insect consultant. I knew Jeremy had an insect consultant but never asked his name before...
#5) It took over 3 months because I rarely IF EVER pull up the BOI and look at it, I suspect this BOI is used more nowadays as a bashing game now, rather than what it was originally intended for, I think it becomes complicated with all the various personality conflicts, and I am too old to honestly deal with the BS..(I typically use word of mouth via my business associates for finding out if someone is legit or I need to vet someone..Its way more personable to talk to someone in real life or even a phone conversation versus texting, emails, or classified ads) and I rarely post to fauna and rarely use this site to promote my sales as well.....(If I ABSOLUTLEY need to move animals to I will post to this site or others, otherwise my vetted clients know what my inventory is and how to get ahold of me if they need something, I have found that it's much more "drama free" that way..
I have tried to get away from selling directly to the public, because of instances exactly like this..
I prefer to offset my costs of importing via selling to other wholesalers and let them liquidate directly to the public or other dealers... We only sell what we will not use for our venom lab....
#6) I can only answer for myself, that I or my company will no longer be importing from this African exporter any longer due to several factors; quality of specimens, number of specimens that were prepaid for vs. what actually arrived, and misrepresentations of animals in the shipping annex. I am fairly certain without conviction however, that Jeremy feels the same way about this exporter...
I have no need for any more importing at this time...We have all the specimens that we need at this time, so maybe in 2018 we will import another shipment from Central or South America...I'm not sure yet... there are a lot of variables to consider as the year goes on...

Originally Posted by Bayshore_pets

In response to your questions Chris Kennard...
#1) I know they were not represented maliciously because I read your thread and the screenshots, and spoke with Jeremy as well, and these are MY personal perceptions.
#2) Yes, I know Jeremy personally....I have imported some African shipments for him and we have also bought and sold to each other numerous times over the years.
#3) Yes, I read this thread, as confusing as it was I tried to make sense of it..
#4) I can only assume that Phil used the verbage "My African exporter" as to not confuse, involve, implicate, or otherwise complicate the forgoing issues that had surfaced....Phil probably saw the African exporter as strictly his contact because those shipments were being directly handled by Jeremy with myself being involved as little as possible as the actual permit holder, I'm not even sure if Phil knows I exist..lol..
I spoke with Jeremy and Phil IS his partner and his insect consultant. I knew Jeremy had an insect consultant but never asked his name before...
#5) It took over 3 months because I rarely IF EVER pull up the BOI and look at it, I suspect this BOI is used more nowadays as a bashing game now, rather than what it was originally intended for, I think it becomes complicated with all the various personality conflicts, and I am too old to honestly deal with the BS..(I typically use word of mouth via my business associates for finding out if someone is legit or I need to vet someone..Its way more personable to talk to someone in real life or even a phone conversation versus texting, emails, or classified ads) and I rarely post to fauna and rarely use this site to promote my sales as well.....(If I ABSOLUTLEY need to move animals to I will post to this site or others, otherwise my vetted clients know what my inventory is and how to get ahold of me if they need something, I have found that it's much more "drama free" that way..
I have tried to get away from selling directly to the public, because of instances exactly like this..
I prefer to offset my costs of importing via selling to other wholesalers and let them liquidate directly to the public or other dealers... We only sell what we will not use for our venom lab....
#6) I can only answer for myself, that I or my company will no longer be importing from this African exporter any longer due to several factors; quality of specimens, number of specimens that were prepaid for vs. what actually arrived, and misrepresentations of animals in the shipping annex. I am fairly certain without conviction however, that Jeremy feels the same way about this exporter...
I have no need for any more importing at this time...We have all the specimens that we need at this time, so maybe in 2018 we will import another shipment from Central or South America...I'm not sure yet... there are a lot of variables to consider as the year goes on...

Thank you for the response. So who actually knew or dealt with the African exporter? Also, whether managers or partners, it sure seems like there is ZERO communication between them. You have dealt with Jeremy "over the years", yet it seems you knew nothing of Phil and he knew nothing of you. By the way, was USFW satisfied with the photos? Just trying to connect all those pesky little dots.

If jeremy dealt directly with you, why would he tell me that if i had further questions about the scorpions that he would forward me to his invertebrate manager?
If you and jeremy were the initial folks involved in the import and sale from you to him, why does he have hardly no knowledge of the scorpions but was so ready to collect payment?? Still seems very fishy to me. Im not implicating you in anything and frankly dont care until i need to.
The boi serves a great purpose. Its only a bashing game when people start to be deceptive and ignorant. Its still a huge concern to me that a medically significant scorpion was being advertised for sale. If it was a "mixup", which i highly doubt, thats one thing. But to do on purpose could borderline criminal in the event someone was hurt.

Jeremy not knowing anything about the scorpions and referring me to phil is asinine after you said your complete and total dealings were with jeremy. It makes no sense to me still.

Julie, if you could just clear one thing up I will bother you no more. You obviously checked out the whole shipment and stated that the animals in question were in fact "identified and verified by me as Hotenttota". You knew the labels were incorrect. Did you make Jeremy aware of this and if not, why?

In response to Mr. Chris Kennard and Ms. Allison Leigh
Yes USFW had informed me when the shipment arrived that they had limited personnel to actually unpack the scorpions and inspect because, I am assuming the way that they were sent would have been dangerous to their officers to unpack, idk...(ALL scorps were packed in 1 bag together!! completely NOT adhering to IATA or Federal standards) Emperor scorps are now a CITES insect and I had not had emperors on our annex sheet, and apparently "some" African exporters send emperors as mislabeled scorps (when I told my exporter that these were NOT the correct species, the exporter told me that "ALL SCORPIONS are the same there" I emphatically informed him that that does not fly with US regulations and that he cannot send species he is not familiar with...to which he said he would send the correct species on the next shipment..(which didn't happen either)..
Yes, the USFW "trusted" that I send pictures to them once the animals were received and unpacked carefully by Jeremy's personnel.(I kept in close contact with the USFW and my customs broker while this process was going on and provided them ALL information that they requested, we have always had a transparent relationship with state and federal officials)..We have had no previous federal or state violations, so I can only assume that USFW took this into account when determining the outcome of the animals that arrived into the port of Miami on this particular importation.
For dates when this shipment came in or any other questions concerning this shipment I imported for Jeremy, you should direct your questions to the U.S. fish and Wildlife Service..This is public knowledge...just ask them..
Our Wildlife inspector that day was Ms. Witherwax, 3701 NW 82nd Avenue, Unit 1, Doral, Fl, 33166
USFW importation/exportation (404)679-7195, Local USFW office in Miami (305)526-2620

and Yes, Jeremy had them in hand prior to me verifying what had been shipped. I authorized Jeremy to collect this shipment from my broker in Miami and unpack the animals at his facility. Jeremy "thought" that these were in fact Androctonus simply because he went off of the CITES, and trophy permits from the exporting country and had no reason to believe otherwise that the exporter was incompetent....

Originally Posted by Bayshore_pets

In response to Mr. Chris Kennard and Ms. Allison Leigh
Yes USFW had informed me when the shipment arrived that they had limited personnel to actually unpack the scorpions and inspect because, I am assuming the way that they were sent would have been dangerous to their officers to unpack, idk...(ALL scorps were packed in 1 bag together!! completely NOT adhering to IATA or Federal standards) Emperor scorps are now a CITES insect and I had not had emperors on our annex sheet, and apparently "some" African exporters send emperors as mislabeled scorps (when I told my exporter that these were NOT the correct species, the exporter told me that "ALL SCORPIONS are the same there" I emphatically informed him that that does not fly with US regulations and that he cannot send species he is not familiar with...to which he said he would send the correct species on the next shipment..(which didn't happen either)..
Yes, the USFW "trusted" that I send pictures to them once the animals were received and unpacked carefully by Jeremy's personnel.(I kept in close contact with the USFW and my customs broker while this process was going on and provided them ALL information that they requested, we have always had a transparent relationship with state and federal officials)..We have had no previous federal or state violations, so I can only assume that USFW took this into account when determining the outcome of the animals that arrived into the port of Miami on this particular importation.
For dates when this shipment came in or any other questions concerning this shipment I imported for Jeremy, you should direct your questions to the U.S. fish and Wildlife Service..This is public knowledge...just ask them..
Our Wildlife inspector that day was Ms. Witherwax, 3701 NW 82nd Avenue, Unit 1, Doral, Fl, 33166
USFW importation/exportation (404)679-7195, Local USFW office in Miami (305)526-2620

and Yes, Jeremy had them in hand prior to me verifying what had been shipped. I authorized Jeremy to collect this shipment from my broker in Miami and unpack the animals at his facility. Jeremy "thought" that these were in fact Androctonus simply because he went off of the CITES, and trophy permits from the exporting country and had no reason to believe otherwise that the exporter was incompetent....

Wait, what? Why did you have to wait to send pics to USFW til after Jeremy recieved his shipment? Lastly, how many scorpions did you personally send that were not Hotenttota?