SANDIEGO VIVARUIM

A few days ago, there was a post on kingsnake.com about Sandiego Vivarium (Dale Picolla) selling IBD infected animals. I have every reason to belive that this is NOT at all true. In early Jan. I purchased a female Guyanan Red tail ready to breed. I had a great experience purchasing from Dale. He was very informative and answered all my questions. Well that female boa has been in my care since the 5th of January and is yet to have ANY problems. She quickly and spam_succesfully bred with one of my male Guyanan's and I'm looking forward to the expected offspring. Now, if Sandiego Vivarium was selling IBD infected animals, wouldn't the animal I purchased be infected as well? According to the negative post about Sandiego Vivarium, the animals the person had purchased died 2 days later. This makes no sense to me. If the animals were that sick, wouldn't the buyer have noticed something wrong BEFORE he bought the animals? Then the person goes on to say that he SOLD a few of the animals to another person, and those animals died as well. If you knew that these boas were infected, and a few of them had already died, would you sell them? Or maybe he sold the animals BEFORE the others died. What RESPONSIBLE person would sell animals before assuring that they were healthy and eating? No one that I know. I emailed Dale and he assured me that these rumors were completely untrue, and brought on by a conflict between him and the man who made the post. Dale seems like a very honest man, and I truely believe that all of his animals are healthy and very exceptional. I would not hesitate to buy from Dale again.

~ Nicole Fisher ~ &nbsp; &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

<!--QuoteBegin--Nicole+Mar. 17 2002,02<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Nicole @ Mar. 17 2002,02<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>8)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A few days ago, there was a post on kingsnake.com about Sandiego Vivarium (Dale Picolla) selling IBD infected animals. I have every reason to belive that this is NOT at all true. In early Jan. I purchased a female Guyanan Red tail ready to breed. I had a great experience purchasing from Dale. He was very informative and answered all my questions. Well that female boa has been in my care since the 5th of January and is yet to have ANY problems. She quickly and spam_succesfully bred with one of my male Guyanan's and I'm looking forward to the expected offspring. Now, if Sandiego Vivarium was selling IBD infected animals, wouldn't the animal I purchased be infected as well? According to the negative post about Sandiego Vivarium, the animals the person had purchased died 2 days later. This makes no sense to me. If the animals were that sick, wouldn't the buyer have noticed something wrong BEFORE he bought the animals? Then the person goes on to say that he SOLD a few of the animals to another person, and those animals died as well. If you knew that these boas were infected, and a few of them had already died, would you sell them? Or maybe he sold the animals BEFORE the others died. What RESPONSIBLE person would sell animals before assuring that they were healthy and eating? No one that I know. I emailed Dale and he assured me that these rumors were completely untrue, and brought on by a conflict between him and the man who made the post. Dale seems like a very honest man, and I truely believe that all of his animals are healthy and very exceptional. I would not hesitate to buy from Dale again.

~ Nicole Fisher ~ spam_ spam_<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
"if Sandiego Vivarium was selling IBD infected animals, wouldn't the animal I purchased be infected as well?" spam_Nicole, how can you tell if yours was not infected IBD?
"Well that female boa has been in my care since the 5th of January and is yet to have ANY problems. She quickly and spam_succesfully bred with one of my male Guyanan's and I'm looking forward to the expected offspring" spam_Quarantine period is 3 months (6 months were recommended for boa). spam_Do you aware of this?
From my experience. spam_I was interested in the female het albino that they posted. spam_I e-mailed, and called and left a message on their answering machine, stated that I can pick her up since I live in town, and asked if they stand behind her all the way, or just guarantee her het by the paper. spam_It has been a little more than a week, and I still haven't gotten any reply from them. spam_I guess they're looking to sell her out of state.

John Nguyen
Boa Voyage

I remember reading the "Bill Cagle" thread (yesterday) in its entirety. I do not recall that *anyone* said that ALL of the Boas at the San Diego Vivarium were IBD infected, so it is perfectly logical that *some* of their animals are completely healthy. Is the previous message states, Boas can be carriers and remain asymtomatic for a VERY long time, so the fact that your animal does not show any characteristics of IBD means nothing other than it isn't showing symptoms.

I try to stay out of these discussions, but your message is so supportive ot San Diego Vivarium based on this animal that you cast doubt on the validity of what Mr. Cagle has said with little (none) factual informationto back you up.

Snake mites are believed to be the vector for the disease. If your snake didn't have mites when you purchased it, there is a decent chance that it is disease free, but it doesn't mean that the entire collection is pathogen free. Your logic is similar to someone who has unprotected sex with a HIV positive individual, and who tests negative for HIV following the "act", telling the rest of the world that the HIV positive individual "Can't have HIV because I've had sex with that person and I tested negative." The two are not mutually exclusive.... your snake can be the only one they had that doesn't have IBD.... Also, the (now) dead snakes could have been the only ones that did have the disease.... neither is a very likely scenerio, but your statements regarding the status of the animals at San Diego Vivarium are as meaningless as they can be based on your sample population.....

Tom Townsend
(an uninterested party in all of this)

Nicole Here are the facts.

Chris bought from Bill cagle....2 - 3 weeks later the animal (s) died. Proven IBD by Lab Results

Bill Cagle bought the aforementioned animals from San Diego Vivarium.

CFRB bought animal(s) from San Diego Vivarium. spam_those animal(s) died...Proven IBD by Lab Results

That is two, dos, dalawa, (2) completely different people whose animals can be traced back to San Diego Vivarium.
We are not saying all his animals have IBD....We are saying at least 2 or 3 had it. spam_We are not saying your animals has IBD. spam_We are saying it might...it might not....or it can be a asymptomatic carrier of the disease.

Nicole.....you got bits and pieces of the story.

also Please read up o IBD. spam_I posted some links about it.
But I will Post it again. spam_ The more I post it...the more people can learn


Inclusion Body Disease spam_Found on Peter Kahl's webpage. spam_Also found on Melissa Kaplan's. spam_Links can be found on mine
IBD Virus spam_Found on Peter Kahl's webpage. spam_Also found on Melissa Kaplan's. spam_Links can be found on mine

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was interested in the female het albino that they posted. &nbsp;I e-mailed, and called and left a message on their answering machine, stated that I can pick her up since I live in town, and asked if they stand behind her all the way, or just guarantee her het by the paper. &nbsp;It has been a little more than a week, and I still haven't gotten any reply from them. &nbsp;I guess they're looking to sell her out of state.
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John...that does sound kinda suspicious...
IMO

First, let me say that I am not here to bash anyone or to start controversy. &nbsp;I am simply here to verify the facts. &nbsp;

Here are the facts on my end of this situation:

I bought a large female Suriname from Dale Picolla of the San Diego Vivarium. &nbsp;He was asking $650. &nbsp;I offered him $350 and he took it. &nbsp;I put the animal in quarantine and shortly after she died. &nbsp;I thought this to be rather strange as the animal seemed to be outwardly healthy. &nbsp;She had very good weight with nice fat reserves and showed no signs of health problems. &nbsp;Because of the oddity of her sudden death I sent her to the vet for analysis. &nbsp;Chuck Barker of Central Florida Reptile Breeders was nice enough to take her to his vet to be examined. &nbsp;The vet contacted us after all of the lab work was done to inform us that the cause of death was IBD. &nbsp;I contacted Dale and let him know what happened. ( Again, I am not here to bash however, I am astonished at the fact that Dale is still selling animals after being told an animal that came from his collection had IBD.) &nbsp;Dale could not believe the news and he further told me ( in so many words ) that he did not believe that IBD is a valid disease. &nbsp;I requested that he refund my money and he agreed. &nbsp;I have not recieved any money yet. &nbsp;A hard copy of the results of the test will be availible later in the week. &nbsp;I would like to say that I love and care for all of my animals. &nbsp;The people that know me and that have purchased animals from me know that I am honest and that I genuinely care about my animals as well my customers happiness.
Thankfully I did not introduce this animal into my collection. &nbsp;We all have something to learn from this situation. &nbsp;Quarantine is a must, and if a deal seems to good to be true then it probably is!
I hope I have cleared things up. &nbsp;I would also like to say that I have talked to Mr. Cagle and the details he posted on the boa forum were correct and hopefully I have verified them further. &nbsp;I have never met Bill and I have only just started conversing with him over the phone. &nbsp;He contacted me once he found out that I was one of the victims of this unfortunate ordeal. &nbsp;Bill, I want to say thanks for your support and for telling the truth. &nbsp;Chuck, thanks for caring enough to help me get my animal tested by a trusted vet. &nbsp;

MATT HUNTER
TRUEREDTAILS.COM

Hey Nicole,

You call this stupid rumors??? We have 2 vet reports from two totally different vets in two totally different states, yet you call this a rumor? These are licensed Doctors in veternarian medicine. Do you think they would jeopardize their careers by falsifying vet reports? "I don't think so!" It is very unfortunate that you are also a victim of circumstance. I sure hope you quarantined your animals in question. I am honestly more worried about the boas than the people, but I do sympathize with everyone's situation. This is a bad thing and there are alot more angry people than me and Matt.

That's right two vet. reports and Cagle hasn't paid fpr one of them!!!!!! Hey Bill still waiting for that pay-pal you promised me. Did my vet. contact you???

Is Dale banned from here ? &nbsp;Why hasnt he replied ? This thing is like a tree, the more you get into it the more layers you find. &nbsp;I wish all the interested parties would get their aXX on this board and get everything out in the open because quite franky I have not purchased from either Bill or Dale and I am not involved except in the sense that I have a lot of boas and I would hate for soemthing to come my way eventually through a low life who sold something they knew was sick just so they wouldnt lose a few bucks. &nbsp;This is mental masturbation here guys, thats all it is, its a bunch of he said, she said, and that type off crap. &nbsp;Whoever is responsible, if you just get it over with and admit it we would all be very grateful.


Gary Walsch
Sunshine State Reptiles

I almost forgot ...... Bill you admit that the animals came from you and whether you bought them from Dale or Joe Blow, by selling him those animals you are responsible for the outcome of that sale and personally I think you should pay Chris's vet bill and I cant understand why you havent. &nbsp;I dont know Chris and I have no stake in Chris getting reimbursed but I think its the right thing to do and when all is said and done he was your customer, other people who read this and would consider buying from you in the future might reconsider when they see how you follow up on a problem. &nbsp;I dont know your personal finanncial situation but I dont think it would kill you to pay one vet bill, now if it were a lot of vet bills then I could see why you would not want to start a precedent here.


Gary Walsch
Sunshine State Reptiles